About leveling and perks

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:15 am

This is point. If we don't have classes, so no need perks system and give us chose to in all masters, when we will have have classes so we straight away will know we to put perks system and also they should be some of them redesigned. Sometime I don't understand dev team, why they want show to us what we clever than You, what Your ideas is stupid like our. We giving ideas for free and no need to think years, but why they so arrogant people don't want accept ideas from players. Is not that like I am dev so I have more right than You and I don't want to listen. More thing I starting discuss more thing I started to know about dev team.

Uh, no one posting here has been from the developer team. And they're the developers, so yes, their decisions ultimately have more impact on the game than yours... because they're the developers.

And I also think you aren't saying the same thing as carrotfeets. At least you don't appear to be in this last post, but I honestly can't make heads or tails out of the first sentence.
User avatar
Fluffer
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:29 am

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:02 am

Uh, no one posting here has been from the developer team. And they're the developers, so yes, their decisions ultimately have more impact on the game than yours... because they're the developers.

And I also think you aren't saying the same thing as carrotfeets. At least you don't appear to be in this last post, but I honestly can't make heads or tails out of the first sentence.

If we want to improve something, so we looking to others ideas. If we wait until come to our minds, it can be late to do, because some else used in elsewhere. If this company want be first and get always nominations not only because some give nominees because they are fan on this game (or for advertisemant), but also because this game is worth to have.
User avatar
Ronald
 
Posts: 3319
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:16 am

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:10 am

If we want to improve something, so we looking to others ideas. If we wait until come to our minds, it can be late to do, because some else used in elsewhere. If this company want be first and get always nominations not only because some give nominees because they are fan on this game (or for advertisemant), but also because this game is worth to have.

Sorry, I'm really not clear on what you're saying here.

Are you saying that the game didn't deserve nominations because the people who nominated it for awards liked the game?
User avatar
Sista Sila
 
Posts: 3381
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:25 pm

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:33 am

Sorry, I'm really not clear on what you're saying here.

Are you saying that the game didn't deserve nominations because the people who nominated it for awards liked the game?

For me was fallout series, oblivion and morrowind. Others I didn't played. I didn't see more improvement gameplay (dragon battle is something new, and castles, but other rest it was removed). This version doesn't worth nominations. I can give better nomination for witcher I and II. I saw something new and interesting.
User avatar
lucy chadwick
 
Posts: 3412
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:43 am

Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:43 pm

For me was fallout series, oblivion and morrowind. Others I didn't played. I didn't see more improvement gameplay (dragon battle is something new, and castles, but other rest it was removed). This version doesn't worth nominations. I can give better nomination for witcher I and II. I saw something new and interesting.

Ok. That's great.

But you aren't in charge of the awards that Skyrim's been nominated for. So if you'd like to host your own awards, you should do that. But that doesn't mean you get to dismiss every other opinion because "They like it, and I don't. Therefore, they are wrong."
User avatar
Jani Eayon
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:19 pm

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:01 am

Ok. That's great.

But you aren't in charge of the awards that Skyrim's been nominated for. So if you'd like to host your own awards, you should do that. But that doesn't mean you get to dismiss every other opinion because "They like it, and I don't. Therefore, they are wrong."

This is my opinion. And I know where is worth to give where is not. Don't think that all nominations is giving because is worth, especially when You know title. You have look what this nomination is meaning to them and for players ;-). Sometimes I call is for businesses but sometimes for great work
User avatar
Stace
 
Posts: 3455
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:52 pm

Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:59 pm

This is my opinion. And I know where is worth to give where is not. Don't think that all nominations is giving because is worth, especially when You know title. You have look what this nomination is meaning to them and for players ;-). Sometimes I call is for businesses but sometimes for great work

Right... awards are rigged, so are sales. The game is actually terrible, but everyone playing it is too dumb to know that.
User avatar
Skrapp Stephens
 
Posts: 3350
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:04 am

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:40 am

Right... awards are rigged, so are sales. The game is actually terrible, but everyone playing it is too dumb to know that.

Actually, the system of reviews, sales numbers, and awards are pretty trumped up. Skyrim can lend much of its success to clever marketing and a pretty face. Reviews and Awards? Hah! I have some beach front property in Nebraska for sale if you put much faith in main stream reviews and awards. I won't deny Skyrim in its own right is a pretty good game, but far from being a "Game of the Year" in my opinion. Skyrim doesn't stand out really more than other titles. The fact is that there just really isn't much competition...It's like being first place in the Special Olympics.
User avatar
Rachell Katherine
 
Posts: 3380
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:21 pm

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:29 am

Actually, the system of reviews, sales numbers, and awards are pretty trumped up. Skyrim can lend much of its success to clever marketing and a pretty face. Reviews and Awards? Hah! I have some beach front property in Nebraska for sale if you put much faith in main stream reviews and awards. I won't deny Skyrim in its own right is a pretty good game, but far from being a "Game of the Year" in my opinion. Skyrim doesn't stand out really more than other titles. The fact is that there just really isn't much competition...It's like being first place in the Special Olympics.

And if all else fails, you can always say, "Well, nothing's very good these days, so it's no surprise people think this is good."

Are some main-stream awards and reviews based around advertising? Sure. Does that mean that none of them have anything to do with quality? No. Did Skyrim only win "main-stream" awards? No. Do Skyrim's sales reflect a poorly-made game? No.

Advertising can only do so much. If the product isn't good, it will fail. Period.
User avatar
cheryl wright
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:43 am

Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:45 pm

And if all else fails, you can always say, "Well, nothing's very good these days, so it's no surprise people think this is good."

Are some main-stream awards and reviews based around advertising? Sure. Does that mean that none of them have anything to do with quality? No. Did Skyrim only win "main-stream" awards? No. Do Skyrim's sales reflect a poorly-made game? No.

Advertising can only do so much. If the product isn't good, it will fail. Period.

I didn't say it wasn't good. I said in my opinion it isn't the "Game of the Year" but in the same vein, there haven't been many huge innovative games that released this year to compete. It isn't a "bad" game, but there are glaring issues with the game. The thing that is so frustrating is that the issues could be resolved rather easily also.
User avatar
No Name
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:30 am

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:49 am

I didn't say it wasn't good. I said in my opinion it isn't the "Game of the Year" but in the same vein, there haven't been many huge innovative games that released this year to compete. It isn't a "bad" game, but there are glaring issues with the game. The thing that is so frustrating is that the issues could be resolved rather easily also.

Now, let's be absolutely clear.

When you say "issues", do you mean the world-famous Bethesda Bugs ™? Or do you mean design decisions that you don't agree with. Because only one of those categories can be considered something that needs to be resolved.
User avatar
Lalla Vu
 
Posts: 3411
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:40 am

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:08 am

And if all else fails, you can always say, "Well, nothing's very good these days, so it's no surprise people think this is good."

Are some main-stream awards and reviews based around advertising? Sure. Does that mean that none of them have anything to do with quality? No. Did Skyrim only win "main-stream" awards? No. Do Skyrim's sales reflect a poorly-made game? No.

Advertising can only do so much. If the product isn't good, it will fail. Period.
While I really don't want to bring it too much in Dragon Age 2 is an example of this. The game has some good sides yes, but isn't a very great game(I'm not trying to say anything against those who like it) and so it didn't do well in sales(isn't it under 1.5 mill still?) despite having pretty good marketing as far as I can tell.
User avatar
dean Cutler
 
Posts: 3411
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:29 am

Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:53 pm

Attributes should not have been replaced by perks, let alone perks that are just mainly percent boost.

Attributes should define your character physically while perks help define your skills in a meaningful way.

The two together would allow for more depth and diversity with your characters.
User avatar
Kayla Oatney
 
Posts: 3472
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:02 pm

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:43 am

Now, let's be absolutely clear.

When you say "issues", do you mean the world-famous Bethesda Bugs ?? Or do you mean design decisions that you don't agree with. Because only one of those categories can be considered something that needs to be resolved.

Both. They have created a scaling world, then hamstring it. They have static itemization in a world where everything else scales. Why do you think the overwhelming consensus is that Magicka svcks? It DOESN'T SCALE. When your enemies have more and more HP and your spells still deal the same damage, that is what I would call inverse scaling. As you level up, you should become more powerful. There are countless posts all relating to the same issues on these forums. How trivial the game is, how busted crafting is, how there aren't any choices that impact the game or rather paths, no factions, the Perk system design etc.
User avatar
Jessie Butterfield
 
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:59 pm

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:00 am

Both. They have created a scaling world, then hamstring it. They have static itemization in a world where everything else scales. Why do you think the overwhelming consensus is that Magicka svcks? It DOESN'T SCALE. When your enemies have more and more HP and your spells still deal the same damage, that is what I would call inverse scaling. As you level up, you should become more powerful. There are countless posts all relating to the same issues on these forums. How trivial the game is, how busted crafting is, how there aren't any choices that impact the game or rather paths, no factions, the Perk system design etc.

So, in other words, you consider design decisions that you don't agree with to be universally accepted "issues" with the game. And you think this in spite of the fact that, even on these forums (which have a disproportionate number of critics, as do all gaming forums), you can find people who do not find these things to be problematic.
User avatar
Greg Cavaliere
 
Posts: 3514
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:31 am

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:32 am

Attributes should not have been replaced by perks, let alone perks that are just mainly percent boost.

Attributes should define your character physically while perks help define your skills in a meaningful way.

The two together would allow for more depth and diversity with your characters.

I very agree with You. Is very strange, how You can gain level if don't nothing about it. I mean I have sneak level up to 100 hundreds and don't abilities because I didn't choose. What mean skill level and they this skill affect you level?
User avatar
darnell waddington
 
Posts: 3448
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:43 pm

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:56 am

How You can get experience if You didn't learn nothing new. Why You can call yourself master of skill if You don't have any abilities. I was trying to say skill and perks system doesn't have connections.
User avatar
Tammie Flint
 
Posts: 3336
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:12 am

Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:06 pm

How You can get experience if You didn't learn nothing new. Why You can call yourself master of skill if You don't have any abilities. I was trying to say skill and perks system doesn't have connections.

Except they do.

You can't invest perks in a skill you haven't leveled up. And while you can have a skill at 100 without perking it, it's nowhere near as good as the same skill with perks.
User avatar
Sherry Speakman
 
Posts: 3487
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:00 pm

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:11 am

what why I very liked oblivion and morrowind way. When growing skills, You will now what you will learn new things, because everything is from experience. And You like do this because is interesting to discover skill system
User avatar
Philip Lyon
 
Posts: 3297
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:08 am

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:05 am

what why I very liked oblivion and morrowind way. When growing skills, You will now what you will learn new things, because everything is from experience. And You like do this because is interesting to discover skill system

And this is different from Skyrim... how?

You still have to use skills to level them. You still benefit from leveling your skills up. All perks do is make sure that your character is specialized in the end-game, instead of specialized at the beginning and completely generic by the end.
User avatar
Jerry Jr. Ortiz
 
Posts: 3457
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:39 pm

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:16 am

Except they do.

You can't invest perks in a skill you haven't leveled up. And while you can have a skill at 100 without perking it, it's nowhere near as good as the same skill with perks.

if you not planned to take skills these so why they show to you. It takes more space in windows, it takes time to load and use computer resource. It likes advertisemant, I have skill level 100, ops I don't have perks. But if You not be mage, they should allow to grow this skill, so will be choice to put perks on other things. And why need perks system? From point I can understand if skill have tree and You have priority to put perks.

When You know what You will spend all perks in these skills so why need perks system? Just spend more time with mouse very time put perk? Is something is not real and just waisting time. I prefer what perks unlocks automatically after You reach skill level. Even better what they not show all perks, but with skill level you find more and more perks in that skill tree. Is more interesting and nice to explore skill system.
User avatar
Robert Jackson
 
Posts: 3385
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:39 am

Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:04 pm

if you not planned to take skills these so why they show to you. It takes more space in windows, it takes time to load and use computer resource. It likes advertisemant, I have skill level 100, ops I don't have perks. But if You not be mage, they should allow to grow this skill, so will be choice to put perks on other things. And why need perks system? From point I can understand if skill have tree and You have priority to put perks.

When You know what You will spend all perks in these skills so why need perks system? Just spend more time with mouse very time put perk? Is something is not real and just waisting time. I prefer what perks unlocks automatically after You reach skill level. Even better what they not show all perks, but with skill level you find more and more perks in that skill tree. Is more interesting and nice to explore skill system.

Yeah... no idea what you're saying in the first paragraph.

As for the second point, at least insofar as I understand it, the point is that they wanted to design a game where you couldn't just level up every skill to the same level of mastery and become a jack of all trades. This was a deliberate design choice. Deliberate. Design. Choice. And, ironically, it enforces exactly what you seem to be lobbying for, which is a more defined class system.
User avatar
marina
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:02 pm

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:38 am

So, in other words, you consider design decisions that you don't agree with to be universally accepted "issues" with the game. And you think this in spite of the fact that, even on these forums (which have a disproportionate number of critics, as do all gaming forums), you can find people who do not find these things to be problematic.

Typically the people who do not find faults in these areas are of a lower intellectual capacity. I find fault in a lot of the so-called Design choices. Yet, I am not quite sure we can call them Design choices when there does not seem to be much logic or backwards logic behind many things.
User avatar
Nick Jase Mason
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:23 am

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:30 am

Typically the people who do not find faults in these areas are of a lower intellectual capacity. I find fault in a lot of the so-called Design choices. Yet, I am not quite sure we can call them Design choices when there does not seem to be much logic or backwards logic behind many things.

I get it now! I don't agree with you, so I'm an idiot! And if I don't agree with you that I'm an idiot for not agreeing with you... I'm an idiot! You've discovered the best way to win any argument anywhere ever.
User avatar
Dalia
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:29 pm

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim