2 things I like to bring up:

1: Economy. Some people(like Sybile Stentor) says that the wares and the trade from the Empire is important.

2: Magic. The Nords, and seemingly even more so the Stormcloak Nords, attitude to magic might become a problem since the dominant race in the Dominion(not sure about the numbers, but at least politically) are know for being magic users.

Anyone care to comment on these?

Sure they do. All Mujahideen were to the US were a tool of freedom fighters. Insert any religious/ethnic group and you have an equivalent. Nords cover both actually. Skyrim has resources, Nords have bodies. All there is to it. Hammerfell works too.
They aren't occupying Hammerfell or Skyrim, they start feeling economic pressure they just give up some ground and fortify until they can recover.

If all the able bodied Norseman are picked off and executed by the Thalmor before the empire grows a set of balls, there is no army to field. That simple. You strike while the iron is hot. Right now, the Nords are hot.
The Thalmor presence in Skyrim is catching small amounts of Talos supporters and escorting them through the woods, there is no way the skeleton presence is going to actually kill every able bodied man in an entire country.

The best way for the empire to get Skyrim support at this point is not conquering them, not pretending nothing happened. Its surrendering and withdrawing from Skyrim. There is no going back at this point. The only way to have both Empire and Skyrim is for Empire to lose the civil war. Unless there's some ridiculous plot twist that is not at all realistic.
They surrender, the AD take that as provacation and reignite the war while the Empire is at it's weakest gaining more ground.

The Chinese were supporting the N. Vietnamese bro. Not talking about the Russians here. And again, you can't argue it was a communist flaw when we are suffering the same fate. Twice counting Vietnam actually.
Capitalism is also flawed.

1. There's another supplier outside of Windhelm, forget her name. East Empire Co is the familiar face but its not the only kid on the block. Besides, I totally raided their supplies.

2. Ysgremor didn't have no problem with Elves....Seriously though, I think people play on the lore of magic a bit too much. Its important and powerful and all that yeah. But I don't think its correct to say that magic > all. I think people tend to glean to heavily on the magic lore. Truthfully, ranged combat can be done just as well with trained bowmen.


Counter question. The Elves feared the Nords rate of reproduction in the early days of Nord presence on Skyrim. This tells us, Mer cannot recover as quickly from war losses as Men. If both sides faced heavy casualties following the Great War, couldn't it be possible that in the 25 some odd years since the end of the great war, that the forces of Men have recovered to a considerably greater degree than the Mer?

They aren't occupying Hammerfell or Skyrim, they start feeling economic pressure they just give up some ground and fortify until they can recover.

The were removed from Hammerfell with the 2nd Treaty of Stros M'kai. But in game, we are told that the resistance is alive and well in Hammerfell, at least in some way insinuating that there is a returning AD presence in the country. Even if that is not the case, the AD is driven back from Hammerfell. That is a win for the Redguard. The same is the case for Skyrim. There is no direct statement on an occupation in Skyrim, but they do have an Embassy and presence in at least one city. I won't count Winterhold. But they do operate unchecked across the country. That's a presence. At any rate, again. Let them give up ground every time they feel pressure. That's how you run out an invading power. Inch by inch. Sorta the point.


The Thalmor presence in Skyrim is catching small amounts of Talos supporters and escorting them through the woods, there is no way the skeleton presence is going to actually kill every able bodied man in an entire country.

We can't assume that. I mean, if we go by simply what we see in the game, The largest city is merely a couple dozen people. Obviously, we are supposed to believe that there is more to the city than simply the few NPC's we come across. This is a design decision obviously. Otherwise, Ysgremor came on a boat with more people than the entirety of Skyrim. Makes no sense.

They surrender, the AD take that as provacation and reignite the war while the Empire is at it's weakest gaining more ground.

Provocation? Its a provocation to another power that one country has lost a war? What sense does that make? Really now. Didn't happen when Titus II renounced Hammerfell when the Redguard refused the WGC. Even if this were the case, the AD itself is not at full strength, and again they cannot fight on multiple fronts.

Capitalism is also flawed.

Not the point but yeah...

Ysgramor defeat the elf back then now? Who knows how much the altmer has advance in magic.

That was the snow elf that breed slower, the altmer according to pocket guide to the empire did not reproduce slowly, instead they kill many of their offspring because their obssession with purity, if they stop this tradition they can repopulate as fast as men.

Or just delaying the inevitable and making it so they can't leave thus really it becomes nothing but a huge trap.


Too address your first one, that shipping company relied too much on pirates for business, once the EEC is gone whose to say the pirates wouldn't hit them harder? Thus ruining the business because they can't afford to exterminate them.

Second, yes ysgremor never had a problem with elves or magic but that doesn't change the fact that if something goes wrong a lot of Nords will either blame magicka and mages (like in the great collapse and proof of this furthers with several nords showing distaste towards you asking about the college or Fallion up in mortal), Falmer who are seen as entities of malice and bad luck as well as stealing children and murdering farm animals as well as causing blizzards, foreigners, yes I know this is a touchy subject but there are nords that will blame foreigners for problems.

also towards your elf question, not all elves are like that for example its been hinted that Orsimer and Bosmer reproduce as humans do while Altmer do but theres some believe that the Altmer kill their young at the sign of disabilities and imperfection as for the Dunmer they reproduce slowly and its often said that most go their lives with only having 1-4 children.

Yep, but that was the empire who has high rock, how about when the stormcloaks who have minimal knowledge about magic enter an area heavily booby trapped with rune? A whole army can be decimated.

And about don't do your enemy job, do you have any proof that they did not stop the tradition?
Granted, I don't have proof that they did not stop it either however this opens up the possibility, however, you don't have proof that Ysgramor defeat the elf without magic either.

As far as I know the Altmer tradition of killing newborn of unpure blood have never been confirmed.

The Ysgremor comment was a joke. The actual point was about how game fans tend to take to heavily to the magic lore in TES and seem to forget there's a heavy history about the efficacy of various other skills. The blades were a great example. The Alik'r and their driving of the Thalmor from Hammerfell a better one. Point was simply that its not the case that magic > all. And everyone in the other thread last night kept saying that to not use magic simply means brute force. That's not the case at all.

Neither have that they breed slower.

I cannot say anything on Alik'r except that it was a weakened dominion

There magic user amongst blades however, as proved in Morrowind.

Yea we should really remember not to listen to the first pocket guide...but it wouldn't be surprising for the Thalmor to do.


Ah I see, I agree.

What does High Rock have to do with anything? Since when did the conversation go from ousting the Thalmor to a Stormcloak invasion of the Bretons?

And if their rune spells are anything like ours, not too much to worry about really...just sayin.

It doesn't matter whether or not the Atmorans could use magic, though nothing in the lore suggests they would. They beat the elves. Period. That's the point. Magic is not insta-win.

Precisely. Weak enough for a single nation to drive them from their homeland. Which takes us back to last night. The nords have an even stronger warrior tradition. And an equally harsh if not more so terrain advantage. No reason the Nords can't pull off the same feat. Which was what the whole debate last night was about.

Breton is knowledgeable about magic

And Tsun says that Nords used to respect magic, so what to says Ysgramor did not use it?

And they won't know how dispatch runes even if they know that it is dangerous.

What does that have to do with anything? Since when did it become an issue of Stormcloaks invading High Rock? Get it?

That was what? How many years ago, now? Who knows.

But there is one thing that I agree that signing the WGC is a mistake.

Well its not insta-win but it could be used to help win, especially in large amounts and the point about high rock was to prove the empire has a race that has a large history of magic users while the stormcloaks are so distrustful of mages that they would train them.



They could hold off an AD attack on their homeland but taking the fight to the Dominion would mean instant death because the warriors have no clue how to handle themselves in different climates, the heavy armor will make them tired in the hot temperatures down south and they know nothing about foliage or what is safe to eat when they are camping, not to mention the lack of useful supply lines and the fact that Stormcloak ships would pretty much be easy targets for pirates since the nords aren't really a sea-faring race.

Except Skyrim's warrior population will have been severely depleted by not only the Great War (which if memory serves Hammerfell didn't really participate, fighting the Thalmor after they left the Empire), but by the threat of dragons and Ulfric's Civil War. They'll need serious time to rebuild their forces, while the Thalmor have had time to regroup and plan on how to most effectively take on the Nords, without having to sacrifice warriors to do so.

the empire's goal was to reunite skyrim back with the empire because they went rogue. The problem is that the empire was/is EXPECTING an attack from the Thalmor. They're just placating them with this talos ban thing so they can stall them for as long as possible. The problem is the stormcloak and ulfric are ego centrical morons. Ulfric is a liar on multiple levels as well and clearly comes off as being power hungry, and he did seem kind of racist to me.

All I know is, I installed a mod and I just killed every stormcloak commander on the map that I couldn't before and I felt pretty good doing it.

Breton is a mage which is included in the legion as battlemages.