Hey Baked, instead of going "Go NCR!" how about hearing some actual arguments about them?
I gave some about Legion in my post with the spoiler tag.
So come on then, let's hear 'em, why is NCR better than Legion?

Personally, I'm opposed to the NCR controlling Vegas. Their expansionalistic land grabbing is only going to lead them to a societal if not governmental collapse. To make matters worse. The NCR does nothing more than tax the people of one location and spend those taxes on the NCR capital. Also, alot of the higher ups in the game make it painfully obvious they wish for nothing more than to strip the Vegas region of it's resources and strip it dry like locusts. Second still is the NCR doesn't even let you join them, all they give you is a gold pin, and the end slide calls it the highest CIVILIAN honor. That is ridiculous and just plain outright ungrateful of them to give you little recognition for your work.

Worse still is their government corruption. There are so many politicians back in Shady Sands that work for the best interests of Brahmin Barons. That's even the reason why Crimson Caravan in Vegas is in a spiral, because some spoiled kid's daddy says he wants his kid to have his way.

In short, the NCR and it's manifest destiny ideals will kill it. Doing something because 'It's our right'. Plus, they are biggots. Do you ever see Super Mutants in the NCR military? No? Didnt think so. And how often do you see Ghouls serving in masses in the NCR army? They have no right to roll over people and say "Our land now, get off it." Oreno even shows this. He got there first, and they have the foolish idea that it's THEIR land and that HE is squatting on it.

NCR losing the Dam is a good thing, it gives them the very punch in the nose they need to see they are in a serious need of revising their behavior.

I'll do that, too.

Why I Like NCR. By GraniteDevil.

I identify with those who can compromise. I like those whom I can identify with. I side with those whom I like.

Caesar does not compromise. You do what he tells you. House does not compromise. You do what he tells you. Neither one listens to anything you have to say. They want nothing to do with your suggestions. As for Yes Man? Yes Man is SkyNet waiting to happen. Eventually, Yes Man will stop saying yes and it, too, will stop listening to you. NCR demonstrates they can compromise when I negotiate an alliance between them and the BoS.

I choose NCR. Caesar and House can take their hard-line bull[censored], turn it sideways, and stuff it up each other's [censored]. Yes Man should be obliterated along with every other robot in the wasteland.

Go NCR! :salute:

Super mutant ranger in FO2. :whistling: And ghouls are just rotting pieces of sapient flesh who can't even run properly, I don't think many of them very keen on serving in the army.


You can negotiate an alliance with Legion and the BoS, too. :hubbahubba:

Edit. dp

Sad thing is that NCR doesn't listen to it's people.
Only listen to the PC for plot convenience, would make more sense to me if they went "these are our orders given from top command, they are not to be questioned." Since that's basically what every single member of the NCaRmy does.

out of NCR and Legion, proberly NCR (they are more advanced (they always use guns) and its easier to get quests from them.
out of all of them, Yes Man (if theres gonna be any dictatorship its going to be me as the dictator, sadly the game ends before you can become one).

While I do not argue this, it is that same convenience that keeps me siding with them. On the other hand...




What? Really? I... did not know that. How very interesting. This starts to unravel my argument against them, doesn't it?

I might just end up converting. What would seal the deal? Being given the option to enslave for the Legion. That would pretty much pin my Legion Like-O-Meter. And all over again, I'm very sad that the slavery component of FO3 is not present in New Vegas

I don't like either of them. NCR spread too fast and now it can barely control it's own turf. Legion spread too slow and now it doesn't have enough land or people.

Nice assumption, bro.

Thanks.

To back up my statement, Caesar himself admits that he doesn't have the numbers to defeat NCR straight up. There's a point where you need to expand, both landwise and population-wise. And since women are so highly disregarded in the Legion, and aren't even allowed to fight, that further lowers their troop count.

Hell, that sounds kinda familiar.
[/quote]
I think thats what obsidion was going for. The war in the Mojove is being fought for wrong reasons, different ones than what the brianwashed public and troopers of the NCR think they are fighting for.While the people and troopers suffer, and the NCR slides down because of it, political figures and other groups giain a lot.The NCR could run very well if it wasnt so big(both in size of government, and in actual size), and didnt have so much beurocracy That does sound familiar.

I was writing that and just slowing down...like...yeah that sounds kinda...huh. Well played Obsidian. Well played.

No that wouldnt happen. NCR obviously have Rangers so there's no way the legion could win. Who cares how spread they are. They still beat the hell out of them.

Fun fact: We know [censored] about the legion outside our current map boundaries. Didn't Caesar say he had taught his men to use guns actually? There may be more to legion then just swords wielding soldiers who's loyalty is unbound. NCR is corrupt and only there for resources. CL is there to rule over it, they have long term goals for the area.

Yes, I did.


1. But they don't, people are suffering under NCR's leadership and they're falling asunder because of their greed, they only wear that democracy thing as a mask for their true agenda to just take everything they want, they give a false sense of hope under a "civilized" banner.
They are in fact no better than Legion, the difference is that Legion doesn't try to hide behind a facade, they're honest with what they're doing, and Legion's way of doing things are working far better than it does for NCR.

2. I've seen junkies, alcoholics, cowards and people unfit for duty in NCR and most of them have been demoralized by Legion.

3. That's cause Obsidian didn't set centurions stats right, in lore Centurions are supposed to be equal or better than Desert Rangers.

I still fail to see any good reason to support NCR.
Cause they got cool Desert Rangers? Not good enough.

The rangers are an effective force if used well. Oliver won't use them well.
He makes his plan pretty obvious from the get go. In order to overshadow the tactical expertise of his predecessor who, despite using seriously intelligent tactics still almost lost out, succeeded in gaining glory for his victory.

Oliver wants to march his men onto the dam, kill the legion as they try to take it then push through to their camps and kick them out. Sound plan if you outclass your opponent by several degrees and the dam is a defensible position.
They don't and it's not.

Firstly, the legion is behind them, they've got men around the place and even have a couple of permanent settlements (Nelson/Cottonwood) where they can raid from and the NCR can't do a thing about.
Secondly the dam is not defensible, it could be and it should be but Oliver's lack of interest in reinforcing it against attack leads to a serious problem, as is shown during the CL playthrough Lanius knows of tunnels which can be used to infiltrate the dam, he uses them. Oliver doesn't even know they exist.

As for the military superiority, well, if we take tactics out of it and made it a straight slug I'd say it's pretty tight, despite the lack of reinforcement since the last battle (where CL have rapidly grown in power in the region) what they have got is the rangers, a highly effective fighting force, expert skirmishers outfitted with night vision and powerful weapons. In an extended fight they'd make the difference. In a straight slog it's tough, but CL has got more moral, they're not going to run, they want to kill the NCR scum, the NCR are afraid, the troops are people who want to go home, who don't like it in the Mojave, who want to make a difference perhaps, but not by giving their life.

Throw in the tactics and the Legion wins outright. Surrounded, hit on all sides and given a simple escape option. The NCR would be kicked out and fast. Graham was tactically weak, Lanius is not, for all his bloodthirst he's astute, he understands his enemy and does not underestimate them.


Hsu is smart, Moore is...ok. Oliver leads them though. With Oliver there they must defer to him, such is military command. Oliver is an imbecile. Seriously, he's just an idiot, through and through. Even with Hsu in charge it would be tough as hell (though, we could argue if Hsu was in charge for some time things would improve). With Oliver it's a no brainer. The toughness of the rangers is bizarrely exaggarated in game, but even if we take their strength in game as canon they'd still lose out. The legion has them so screwed over it's unreal.

Without the Courier's intervention, the fight's over before it begins. Oliver floods the dam, the Legion encircles them and cuts them down, slowly. Maybe leaving them the funnel through Boulder City, likely not. The NCR on the dam would probably be killed to a man. McCarren would either fall to the Fiends or be hit hard enough that reinforcements couldn't come. Bitter Springs is in no way to give aid even if the Legion don't destroy it beforehand (assuming Boone's quests raiding party would exist without the Courier/Boone). The embassy on the strip would be cut out of aiding McCarren thanks to a certain traitor and would be too far to reach the dam before it was lost, even if they did they'd be harassed en route by forces from Bitter Springs, not to mention the fiends...
Novac falls to Cottonwood, presumably, while Forlorn Hope has no chance of survival against the Legion from Nelson (seriously, they'd be screwed). Golf would survive to give aid but Hanlon would likely go down fighting, his rangers with him. No doubt most of the others would flee or be killed.

They'd be pushed back to the Mojave outpost and fast. There they'd likely be hit with small probing attacks while the Legion fortified and advanced, engulfing the Mojave. Once strong enough, they'd take the outpost, making it their forward post of operations into NCR land.

I started cleaning this topic up, but I found too many rude posts, so closing is the best alternative.