Raging for NCR and Legion fans

Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:02 am

This is a post where we can call rage on who's better. All other posts belon to be treated with respect and open-mindedness. So by all means call me an idiot and hit me in the head with a ballistic fist :D

Ok, I believe NCR is better because people often thrive more under the republic rather than a dictatorship. There are many Intelligent officers like colonel Hsu and Moore. Despite being hit by legion patrols daily they still manage too stay strong even though they're poorly supplied. Veteran Rangers are not overpowered as much as they're amazIngly skilled, the best of the best. My first playthrough with the NCR I thought at he Hoover dam, oooh a bunch of rangers that are going to die in a second and then I'll feel bad! But no they [censored] any centurion that was in they're way haha. Those are my points.
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Melis Hristina
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:04 am

BoS > NCR
BoS > Legion


To quote Vampire Willow,
"Questions? Comments?" :P
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tiffany Royal
 
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Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:32 pm

Legion is bad, mkay? If you support the Legion, you're bad, mkay?
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Christine Pane
 
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Post » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:50 pm

Ok, I believe NCR is better because people often thrive more under the republic rather than a dictatorship.
That totally depends on who is in charge. People often don't know what is in their or their country's best interest, and elect low-performing politicians in office while a dictatorship like ancient Rome or the old monarchy of England thrived pretty well at times.

However, in this discussion, NCR supporters tend to view the NCR's efforts in the Mojave as an honest attempt to create a decent society there. In reality, as stated in the intro, and throughout the game, the NCR is in the Mojave for the resources. They sent scouts to the Mojave area in search of resources, and they found Hoover Dam. They need the electricity and water to support their own territory, and will do anything to secure it. They don't care about New Vegas, Primm, Goodsprings, Novac or the people living there. They care about Hoover Dam, HELIOS One, and the power they can provide.

Of course, their presence requires soldiers, and these soldiers in turn, provide a certain amount of security in the region. The NCR knows this, and heavily taxes the inhabitants of the region. So much, in fact, that the people under their rule can barely scraqe by. Easy Pete from Goodsprings says he came there to avoid the NCR and their taxes, Johnson Nash will charge you more for his goods if Primm falls under NCR jurisdiction, just to compensate for all the caps he is being forced to hand over.

In short, the NCR presence in the Mojave is bleeding it dry. The people of the Mojave get no share of the resources the NCR is sending back home, and they get to pay up dearly for the NCR's so called 'protection'. Don't forget the presence of the Powder Gangers in the region is the NCR's fault. So much for safety.

The Legion is even worse, they will turn the Mojave into a bloodbath with never-ending chaos. They're sadistic hypocrits with no management skills whatsoever. When these are the only choices, the NCR is probably the best pick, but there's always good ol' Mr House to save the day. :vaultboy:
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Motionsharp
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:43 am

The Legion would be the best faction in all Fallout (after Enclave) if they just didn't their their subjects as trash.
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phillip crookes
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:33 am

Oh... It's this subject again...
How about this, that you click the link in my sig, go back to the previous threads and read through them and voila! No need to have this discussion again...
The last time it reached 5 threads with the 6th one being closed due to lack of new arguments.
Go read through those again.

And again; Can't see how NCR will survive, they'll fall, when they do their people will be set back to square one, so I believe that Legion is best for humanity as a whole.
And House is a greedy diaper wearing old sod who should just die and Yes Man is a revolutionary robot who returns anarchy to the people, hardly going to root for either of those.
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Katy Hogben
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:26 am

Oh... It's this subject again...
How about this, that you click the link in my sig, go back to the previous threads and read through them and voila! No need to have this discussion again...
The last time it reached 5 threads with the 6th one being closed due to lack of new arguments.
Go read through those again.

And again; Can't see how NCR will survive, they'll fall, when they do their people will be set back to square one, so I believe that Legion is best for humanity as a whole.
And House is a greedy diaper wearing old sod who should just die and Yes Man is a revolutionary robot who returns anarchy to the people, hardly going to root for either of those.

How about I hit you in the head with a ballistic fist? NCR wins. Every time.If I'm not the one to start it up again, someone is. Legion will fail like Hitler did. Because what is Caesar (not the current one but any Caesar) other than a roman Hitler?
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noa zarfati
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:43 am

How about I hit you in the head with a ballistic fist? NCR wins. Every time.If I'm not the one to start it up again, someone is. Legion will fail like Hitler did. Because what is Caesar (not the current one but any Caesar) other than a roman Hitler?

Uh-huh.
Did you read the previous 5 threads in my link?

Anyway, here's a post I did in the other thread, gonna search around the threads for some other pro-Legion arguments.
Feel free to look around the previous threads for pro-NCR arguments as well.

Spoiler
I don't like slavery, I find it to be horrible.
But this is the post apocalyptic wasteland and look how places are without order, one example is a place we had a whole game to, Capital Wasteland.
Look at how that place fared without any government or nation to uphold law and order.
It fell apart.

Now, what if NCR fell apart?
What would happen?
Well, different groups would seize the opportunity to strike less protected towns in order to take their stuff.
And what are those groups called?
Raiders.

If NCR falls then a lot of settlements, towns, cities, communities, villages and tribes will be without protection and raiders will seize the lands once again.
The connection that the lands had with each other will fade away as everyone tries to isolate themselves again.
Production will not come to a halt but it will slow down immensely.

So.
Why do I believe in Legion?
Cause they bring order.
They bring order to it's lands through brutality.
And guess what?
It works.
And here's the next thing, if Caesar dies then Lanius takes over.
It Lanius dies then Lucius will take over.
If Lucius dies then I'm sure Vulpes Inculta would take over.
No matter how many times you try to kill Legions leader the legate will always become the new Caesar.
The Legion cannot die.
It's way to do things might change depending on it's leader.
But Legion's structure will remain the same and they will continue to conquer until they've engulfed the entire West Coast.

So why do I believe in Legion?
Cause they won't fall.
They will never fall.
And they will bring order through brutality.
It will take many years of blood, pain and tears but in the end it will be better since everyone will be under one nation.
And no one, not a single person would dare to oppose them.
No more raiders.
No more fanatics.
No more corruption.
In Legion I place my trust even if my fate is to become a baby momma.

If some slaves have to suffer for a secure civilization to be restored for future generations then so be it.
So I don't like what they do, I don't approve of their slaves, sixism, torture or crucifixion but I approve of what their long-term goal is.
See, there's a difference.


[EDIT]
To clear a couple of things up.
Legion will never fall: No, I don't believe it will ever fall, the morality might start to go on a downward spiral if 5 Caesars in a row are killed within a couple of years but I don't think that Legion will easily abandon their new religion. I mean, they're willing to "die" for Caesar, no questions asked, just die if it served Caesar, so I doubt they would ever fall, the only faction that "could" kill Legion entirely is NCR if they got their [censored] together (Which I find unlikely) and MWBOS.

And we don't know about Legion's entire culture so who knows, maybe their civilized areas have little to no sixism, torture and crucifixion which strengthens them even more IMO.



So, Legion.
Another take on them is this: We live in a civilized world IRL, where as NCR and House represent what is familiar to us.
So lets say.... There is a tribe IRL which is filled with cannibals, they eat their foes flesh as they believe it strengthens them.
Why?
Religion perhaps?
Anyway, that is every day life to them.
Where as "not" eating humans is every day life to us. (Well, for most of us here anyway.)
So think about it.
If you were born into the Legion you wouldn't be "brainwashed", you'd just live in a world that is familiar to you.
It isn't bad.
It's home.
It's who you are, it's what your beliefs are.
Legionnaires that are born into the Legion are not evil at all, they live in world where what they do is perfectly normal.
So again, it's about perspective.
Since we all live in a civilized world IRL it's easier for us to sympathize with those that represent it the most.
But it does not make the Legion bad IMO.
It makes them of a different world.

Yes, they do enslave a lot of people, but we only have 4 slaves to go by which reside in The Fort which is a military camp.
We don't know how they generally treat the majority of slaves in their civilized locations.
So generalizing Legion by the account of a dozen people or less?
It's a bit premature.
On the other hand, we can't justify speculation all the time either.
So on the slave part, Legion shouldn't really be touched, because we know extremely little of how it actually is.

They do kill people, but one needs to look at who they kill.

Spoiler

Nipton died cause the town was down right evil.
Some innocent people died as well, sure, but frankly, if I go to the slums I need to realize that I might get stabbed by crackaddict who want my money in order to get a fix.
They chose to live in a bad place, something was bound to happen to the "innocent" people there sooner or later.
If not Legion, then something else.



Spoiler

They kill off the old people of the Khans.
Why?
Younger people are easier to manipulate whereas older people are more stuck in their own goals. (For example, that remnant guy at the end of Arcades quest who storms out.)
In order to legionize the Khans the old people had to go, otherwise they could be spreading their wisdom and beliefs to other legionnaires or slaves and create disturbance.
It's not very kind, sure it's not, but I understand the reason for why they did kill them off.




Spoiler


They killed of The Fiends, understandable.




Spoiler


They attacked Novac, well, I wonder why? I mean it's not like they have 3 former NCR members protecting their town.
Sure it was a bit excessive but Novac believed in their independence and probably refused to become part of anyone's lands.
They were opposition, no longer a town of civilians, more of a militia.
I understand why they had to go, again, I feel bad for the people there but I understand the reasons.




I can understand why they did kill most of these people, I don't like it, in fact, I think it's horrible anyone has to die really.
But I understand why they had to die.

Citizens.
What do we know?
We know they watch over Primm, we know they peacefully lord over some of the people in The Strip, we know they have a trader in The Fort.
But we don't know "how" the lord over their people, we don't know "how" many got to stay citizens and why they were allowed to be that.
We have no idea of what a civilized Legion is really.

So why do I support Legion even though I know very little of their citizens?
Cause they seem better than NCR.
Until I see that Legion treats their citizens like absolute crap I will still support them.
Cause while we don't have a lot of hard facts about them being treated well we also don't have any hard facts of people being treated badly either. (citizens)
So it might be blind support but opposing the Legion and saying they're wrong is also very blind.
All comes down to speculation about it.


The female citizens, baby mommas and teachers must be treated all right though right?
There is civilization beyond legionnaire and slave since they have traders and their own currency so citizens must exist, both male and female.
And baby mommas, well, it isn't exactly a good thing for the baby to force a pregnant woman to work their ass off nor do I think that it's a good thing for the baby if the baby momma is chained up at a bed either.
So I think that their breeders are treated all right, if not, the babies might come out.... Faulty.
And teachers must be the women who teach the children about stuff before they are fit to start training to become legionnaires. (IIRC some women are teachers.)
Now this is just speculation but still, I doubt "every" women is treated like dirt in Legion Land.


I don't like either the NCR or CL, but of the two, I'd rather be under the NCR. I could freely leave the NCR, and I wouldn't be a brainwashed slave or soldier. I could openly speak of my dislike of the government. I could choose what I want to do.


Well that's the thing, I don't care about "me".
That's the whole point of why I like Legion.
If I were to be selfish and think of my own comfort then I'd say NCR or House.
But I don't care about me.
I care about the west-coast.
Not just in the present (2281) but the future of it as well.
If I have to become a slave for the world to be a better place in 10, 30, 60, 100 or maybe even 200 years from now then so be it.
So my will?
My wishes?
My goals?
My comfort?
It's all about me, my selfish reasons for wanting to live.
And I'm not important, what is important is the future



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Anthony Rand
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:49 am

I liked NCR under Tandi's leadership. They are just annoying in NV and it makes me regret helping them to take over northern California. :sadvaultboy:
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Noraima Vega
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:08 pm

Anyway, here's a post I did in the other thread, gonna search around the threads for some other pro-Legion arguments.


They are like the Taliban, it'd better being dead than living under their rule.
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Benito Martinez
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:03 am

Oh great, it's another 'NCR DUH BEST CUZ DEMOCRACY FTW LOLOLOL. TEH LEGUN SUX CUZ DAH NCR SAI DAY BAD AND CUZ DEY FITE DUH DEMOCACY PEPULZ'

I'm getting tired of this repitition.
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kevin ball
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:18 am

They are like the Taliban, it'd better being dead than living under their rule.

Can't compare the real world to the Fallout world.
Of course Legion is bad in the real world.
But you need to think about what's best for the fallout universe.

Is it a bunch of genocidal pre-war elitists who wish to rid the world of muants?
Is it a legion of slavers who believe in order through fear and brutality?
Is it a man with a vision of capitalism?
Is it a robot with the wish to rid the world of the other super powers?
Is it a bunch of people holed up in the ground believing that technology should be preserved from the lesser beings?
Is it a nation built up on pre-war democracy?
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Theodore Walling
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:58 pm

Look how efficient NCR are. Fiends and powder gangers roaming the Mojave. While Ceaser and his men tamed arizona which was a hell hole filled with raiders before

NCR taxes the life out of its citizens and takes the Mojave simply for recourses. Then lies and talks about freedom and helping the mojave.

Apart from that we cant really compare the two. Not enough info about how CL treats its citizens and slaves back home
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Isabella X
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:45 am

Oh great, it's another 'NCR DUH BEST CUZ DEMOCRACY FTW LOLOLOL. TEH LEGUN SUX CUZ DAH NCR SAI DAY BAD AND CUZ DEY FITE DUH DEMOCACY PEPULZ'

I'm getting tired of this repitition.

First of all, may I suggest elementary school? You're spelling needs a little work, and you can take your pinky off shift now. Also, go post on a house one or something. Or get out of here at least
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Javier Borjas
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:43 am

As far as I'm concerned, the Legion are a bunch of advanced raiders with a unstable rule that will probably be beat to HELL by a different chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel anyways
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George PUluse
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:58 am

I don't care about Julius's Legion or New Crap Republic, I run Independent Vegas with Yes Man, too bad I don't get to play the aftermath of the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam, where I battled Julius's Legion and New Crap Republic.......I won.
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Michelle Serenity Boss
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:51 am

First of all, may I suggest elementary school? You're spelling needs a little work, and you can take your pinky off shift now. Also, go post on a house one or something. Or get out of here at least

No need to tell someone to get out and to be honest this subject has been over-discussed so many times already.

As far as I'm concerned, the Legion are a bunch of advanced raiders with a unstable rule that will probably be beat to HELL by a different chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel anyways

They actually have a very stable rule, that's one of the pro's with them, should talk to more pro-legion NPC's.
And may I remind you that Centurions have all killed people in Power Armor, that's why they have a piece of it as a form of decoration of their battle skills.
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Lawrence Armijo
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:46 pm

First of all, may I suggest elementary school? You're spelling needs a little work, and you can take your pinky off shift now. Also, go post on a house one or something. Or get out of here at least
Wow, that's uncalled for. People around here respect Martyr and his opinion, and if you'd take the time to actually read some of his posts you'd do the same, whether you agree with him or not.

Anyway, this topic has indeed been discussed numerous times, and I enjoy reading people's motivations for supporting a faction, but replies like yours will get you pretty much nowhere.



Edit: Same thing goes for your reply underneath mine, actually. You're pretty rude.
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Cathrin Hummel
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:48 pm

I don't care about Julius's Legion or New Crap Republic, I run Independent Vegas with Yes Man, too bad I don't get to play the aftermath of the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam, where I battled Julius's Legion and New Crap Republic.......I won.

Incase you didn't notice I'm pretty sure there's a yes man post for you. sooo out you go :obliviongate:
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no_excuse
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:20 am

Legion is bad, mkay? If you support the Legion, you're bad, mkay?

You're the best person ever xD :celebration:
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Breanna Van Dijk
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:47 pm

They both svck!

ITS A SCAM! The NCR & Legion are only pretending to be at war so that the NCR can charge people for taxes. The legion obviously gets a cut.
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Eileen Collinson
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:50 pm

The big factions are bad, mmmkay? NCR is bleh, the other 2 are atrocious.

Me and the Remnants will swoop down from our Vertibirds in our Power Armor and take over New Vegas for ourselves!

Although the Brotherhood are pretty cool dudes. Ugly ass armor you have, but I still like you.
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Jimmie Allen
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:16 pm

First of all, may I suggest elementary school? You're spelling needs a little work, and you can take your pinky off shift now. Also, go post on a house one or something. Or get out of here at least

Guess either the humour was lost on you or you're even more childish than I thought. Also it's your spelling, not you're spelling (which means you are spelling and here makes no sense). Ironic, huh?

How can you compare Caesar to Hitler? They're completely different, the only similarity is the stretch of they kill people, which let's face it, the NCR do too.

I hate this holier than thou attitude you have, especially when it's defending a group who purposefully kill anyone who refuses to surrender to them. Helios One is the most obvious, brotherhood refused to leave so the NCR killed them. Kind.
Of course, they desire to invade Vegas but fear it would let the Legion kill them, doesn't stop them murdering House because in the long run it helps them out. The only way to stop the complete annihilation of the BoS is to go behind the NCR's back, go against direct orders and piss them off in the process. Then we have the Khans of course, accident? Yeah right. They had their orders, they followed through, I feel for the guys on the ground but it wasn't an accident, it was a purposeful slaughter to cripple a tribe which was doing bugger all.

The NCR aren't good guys, it's not just that they're corrupt (and oh my god are they corrupt). They carry their flag around like they're godsends and if you disagree you get killed. Yay. They're land grabbing morons. They have some good people and a lot of the grunts are there for what they believe to be right but that doesn't excuse the republic. They want land and resources to feed the politicians back home, so they send their people out to subdue weaker nations and steal their stuff.

Hell, that sounds kinda familiar.
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casey macmillan
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:27 pm

Subjectivity of topic + rehash of old argument = pointless.

:sigh:

I guess I better say something that's actually on topic. I like the NCR. I think they're best. Everybody else svcks.

Thanks for comin' out.
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Sammi Jones
 
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Post » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:26 am

Subjectivity of topic + rehash of old argument = pointless.

:sigh:

I guess I better say something that's actually on topic. I like the NCR. I think they're best. Everybody else svcks.

Thanks for comin' out.

Thats what I'm talkin about. NCR has the best order and get things done in the best of ways! Does the legion have ranger armor?? I think not.

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Stephanie Valentine
 
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