When you play a character who makes decisions you as a player think are "bad," how do you rationalize it?

For instance, I wanted to play a character who supports the Stormcloaks, but I have had a hard time imagining anybody but a Nord being sympathetic to their cause. I won't get into the reasons why it makes more sense to me to support the Imperials because I do NOT want this to become another "Stormcloaks vs. Imperials" thread. The point isn't which side is right, but how to play someone who you disagree with. I didn't much want to play a Nord, though, because I find their racial power boring. The only way I was really able to get into it was by playing a Redguard, figuring that Hammerfell might be more inclined to help Skyrim become independent (as they managed to do) than to help out the Empire that abandoned them. That required quite a bit of back story generation to work in my head, though.

What about you? Do you come up with complex motivations to justify killing enough followers to get an evil sword up to full power, or why your character would murder and eat a random dude just to get a magic ring? Or do you just play to get whatever gear and powers you want, motivations be damned?

Why would you need to rationalize joining the stormcloaks? Do you believe in their cause or not? It's as simple as that.



But really, I don't rationalize anything. If my character wouldn't do it, he doesn't do it. Never killed Paarthurnax, didn't join the DB or TG, killed Madanach and Thonor.

Like I said, I do NOT want this to become a thread about the morality behind the Stormcloaks, but obviously, I don't think it's simple enough to just proclaim "their cause is just, I will join them!" I have to go out of my way to come up with a reason why you'd support them if you were uncomfortable with the racism in their ranks, the revelations about Ulfric's history, and other reasons that get debated ad nauseam in those other threads.

But maybe your point was just "it's easy enough for me to just say 'this is what this character will do,'" in which case, that's cool too. My problem is that I can't not roleplay sometimes.

Well, on my first play through, I did make a Nord and gave her the believe that the Empire is in league with the Aldmeri Dominion and Skyrim would be better off ruled by one of their own. So, that wasn't really hard to rp, but OMG some of these daedric quests... Namira for instance, I rationalized my character actions by telling myself it is ONLY a GAME and I want to experience all the content! LOLOL

Now, my 2nd character is a loyal Imperial and won't do the "bad" Daedric quests or DB or TG.

The current character I'm playing has a heart as black as night and doesn't flinch when it comes to killing people, innocent or not. haha She killed all 3 hostages during the initial DB quest, without questioning the victims. Just 3 arrows, bam bam bam LOL

I play as an Imperial because I like the abilities the best. But I chose the Stormcloaks only because the Imperials were going to behead me at the beginning of the game without reason.

As for the deadric quests. I kill whoever I have to to get the weapon I want. After all, it is only a video game. And honestly, what video game isn't about killing these days?

Although I did feel a little bad at the end of "A Deadric's Best Friend" because I wanted the axe instead of the masque. But it only lasted a few minutes. If you've done this quest you'll know what I mean.

There's nothing wrong with you doing whatever you want in a single player RPG. I have a coworker who does stuff like that, yet I know he's an ethical moral person. Myself though, I just don't get any enjoyment out of that sort of thing. When I play, I want to be the hero. And that binds me to my idea of what a hero is and what a hero does.

I think things would be different though if this were an ONLINE multiplayer game. Being a jerk to people on line is still being a jerk even if you're not doing it in person. It's important to remember that distinction.

-Believing the Empire is old and weak, and will not recover.
-Believing the Empire is holding the povinces back, or is simply there to serve Cyrodiilic interests.
-Believing Skyrim should simply be independent, for whatever reason.
-Believing the Nords to be the best chance to counter the Thalmor, not the Legions.
-Wanting to be able to worship Talos openly.

It's not that hard.

No one is ever a villain in their own mind. We're master rationalizers. That does't make our rationalizations valid though. We are guided by a variety of things (ethics, morality, faith, and most of all the general tenets of our society). Most would say Hitler was in fact a villain regardless of how much he believed his own rationalizations.

So you can come up with a rationale for why a particular character believes that all chairs are dragons in disguise, but that doesn't mean they are.

Actually its just as simple as that. The Stormcloaks fight for an independent Skyrim as well as religious freedom to worship who you want without persecution. Your character (persumably) lives in Skyrim, and its up to you what he believes in Skyrim's independence or its continual subjugation to the Mede Empire. Racism however exisits in both factions and in every jarl. The Nordic people as a whole are xenophoic and racist, not just the stormcloaks or Ulfric. Racism isn't a major theme as much as nationalism is when it comes to the Stormcloaks, people just can't see the forest for the trees.

While I'm not much of a roleplayer in general, usually I imagine why my character might be doing certain things (might be my sentence as a graduate student in psychology coming into play).

Daedric quests? Power hungry, or beginning to be driven mad by it.

Helping Madanach and the Forsworn? Seemed like a good idea at the time.

Any time I end up doing something I didn't expect (a quest turns out a certain way I had not foreseen), that's basically my justification for the character; impulse (or, in the case of my Orc, he's just kind of thick).

EDIT: Then again, I've never desired or tried to play a "good" character. I really don't have a problem stealing something, helping a "bad person," or murdering scores of people if I can come up with a reason for doing so. So take my opinion in context.

I've tried playing "Good" before. But it's pretty tough to do and you can't play half the game because too many involve criminal activity. Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Daedric quests, etc. Might as well not play the game at all if your going to skip 50% of the quest over having a consience about a video game. I personally want all the cool stuff you can get and honestly, the Deadric artifacts are some of the coolest in the game.

That being said, I don't ever kill anyone or steal anything in the game unless it's absolutely necessary or the only option to get a specific item.

I played the first part only doing quests that I agreed with, then I played it as if my character became a disillusioned drunken has been to finish the ones I couldnt do before. People change - its allowed.

Edit: as far as Tullius v Ulfric goes, I think people do too much reading ahead for them to claim a valid character choice. There is so many threads expounding on why this side or that side is right, but your character should not know of 99% of that information.

Initially I could not play anyone but a Nord for the Stormcloaks.

But, if you play a background of a person of another race who was wronged by the Empire, either personally or their family, you could justify them wanting revenge on the Empire at any cost, including joining a faction you don't necessarily like. Note that this would be incredibly hard with a beast race. I played one Khajiit and he just left the whole civil war quests alone. I also did an Orc who did the same thing.

Try a Redguard. They may hate the Empire for not helping them save their homeland and they would hate the Thalmor above anything else. Easy to Justify.

One of the most intelligent comments I've seen not only regarding the Civil War, but I think applicable to most quests with "sides" to take. I actually like that you're sort of tricked into many of the Daedric Quests; I found Sanguine and Molag Bal particularly amusing. Recovering from a drunken rampage I can relate to, although I've never stolen a farm animal, but now I have the idea in my head for the next time I'm drunk and looking for adventure (We could totally eat that pig right now).

And if I wander into a house, things start flying around and I feel like I shifted dimensions, and a voice starts talking to me inside my own brain, I'd probably listen.

My character is pretty mercenary. I overhear people talking in towns and guards talking about something "I guess so and so got what was coming to them." and I'm thinking the line from "Unforgiven" -- "We all get what's coming to us."

Are there things I wish I didn't do? Yes. I wish I didn't walk out of the College in Winterhold the first time without slitting Ancano's throat, but it wouldn't have mattered since he's plot. The only good Thalmor is a dead Thalmor, and there seems to be no shortage.

Well for my Bosmer most stuff is easy for her, she is a thieving, double crossing homicidal maniac. So far I have stayed out of the civil war as I have not seen the profit in picking a side yet(yes I am in it for the money). On a side note my elf had everything coming to her when she stepped off that wagon Helgen She owes Alduin her life. So for me with this character I have to rationalize making a "good" choice as "whats in it for me"

I RP my Imperial Ranger completely differently she is lives entirely off the land buying nothing, only looting/crafting/hunting/mining what I need to get by. I have made it 30 lvls like this and it has been a chalenge but a fun one.

A coworker said something like "The Empire tried to cut your head off for no reason". So when I decided one of my characters would get involved, it was for this reason.

When the time came to "kill and eat the guy for a ring" I killed them all instead for being abominations to mankind. That cave was their final resting place. Rest in Pieces...

One of the best aspects of this game is that there are very few clear cut decisions with one 'good' option and one 'bad.' However, on the occasion that my character is faced with something which might conflict with his morality, then generally speaking he just walks away.

I suppose the one thing he did do which was somewhat out of character was the quest 'Ill met by Moonlight,' by helping Sinding. Normally, he would believe a child killer would deserve to be put down, and after speaking with the girls parents, that's exactly the reason he sought Sinding out. Upon learning that Sinding was a werewolf, he pitied him, remembering his own time under the curse of lycanthropy and thus aided him.

I agree, it's nice to rationalise when you make a decision which isn't necessarily consistent with your characters motives.

I do sometimes. I don't really feel like my Redguard needed a big reason to justify joining the Stormcloaks, though. Hammerfell resisted the Aldmeri Dominion and would probably want to support an independent Skyrim.

On my Redguard, I roleplayed as a prominent member of the Hammerfell military who was send to aid Ulfric in liberating Skyrim and possibly facilitate an alliance between the two provinces against the Aldmeri Dominion.

Joining the Stormcloaks is easy to justify for any race, even Altmer (especially Altmer if you read about how the Thalmor came to power)
The character just has to hate the Thalmor

Its possible to come up with a reason for almost any choice

Cool thread!

I do my very best to make every decision I make fit the character. The terrible writing in this game makes it really hard sometimes, though. I've walked away from plenty of quests and been forced into more than one situation where there is no decision I can make that makes sense.

The Stormcloaks have a ridiculous barrier for entry for such a major faction. Galmar Stone-Fist is such a shield-biting lunatic that it seems impossible for any rational character to sincerely swear his oath. My only character who supports the Stormcloaks is a spy who is attempting to destabilize the region. I haven't gotten far at all in that questline and I'm worried that it's going to lead to a ton of quests where the character has to be a blood-gorging berserker to proceed. If so, oh well, I can live without seeing that ending.

(Actually that character doesn't even want to fight the Ice Wraith ... I think I'm going to just go buy some Ice Wraith Teeth and Essence and use setstage to make Galmar think I killed it. What? It's not like he's omniscient; how would he know?)

Which reward is better depending on the choice I make?

Generally how I play the game. I don't apply morality to it, because whilst I find it tremendously fun to take the path of a murderer (particulary in Skyrim where neither choice is any different from the other), it's not like I'd kill people IRL. I suppose not the point of an RPG.

Here's some rationalizations for "bad" choices.

Stormcloaks

* Your character hates the Empire and wants to see a series of independent states - The Thalmor think they can conquer everything but actually many states makes it harder to control them as they can't get a full surrender from lots of different state.

* Your character actually believes that they can end the Stormcloak's racism by being the BIG hero and distracting from Ulfric.

SHUSH - You're turning this into a stormcloak/empire debate


Long story short, you shouldn't HAVE to rationalise anything, your character would do it or they wouldn't. If it's not in character for your current incarnation, save it for later and do it on another toon that is more appropriate... my khajiit artificer/trader hasn't taken up either side of the war because they support the thalmor, they arn't an assassin nor are they evil midned enough to be happy in the thieves guild.

i plan to make a vampire illusionist next who will be well suited to the thieves guild and DB