RPing and justifying the Thieves Guild quest line on an hono

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:58 am

Well apparently I missed something cause the oath they wanted me to take was in life and death... And returning the key she says that it was expected of me ( being that she owns me and all...)

If I'm mistaken than great, but can you elaborate why you think so?


Gallus was only a ghost for 25 years and stopped his service by helping you. Karliah states after Gallus is released that the Nightingales serve Nocturnal in life and death only to repay the debt they owe her for granting them luck and powers. Since you returned the Key and essentially restored her power, she releases you of your debt. While she says she expected it, if you actually paid attention, she says that you have repaid your debt to her by returning the Key, so no ghost service for Dragonborn.
User avatar
Manny(BAKE)
 
Posts: 3407
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:14 am

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:00 am

Do the Azura's quests. She promises to you that "she will watch over you in your twilight". That's totally within her powers, considering that she's the goddess of dusk and dawn, of birth and death.

When the time comes and a lot of Daedra will line up to claim your soul (Hircine for sure, if you're a werewolf...) pray to her. I'm sure she will keep her word :wink:
User avatar
BEl J
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:12 am

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:00 pm

I never got that far. Because I had bad feelings about both the TG and DB questlines from the word go and did some research. I suppose there are people who actually can divorce their "real selves" from what they play in a game - but I simply can't do that. And I've been playing CRPGs since 1985 (and AD&D PnP games since the mid-70s....) Role-play is one thing. Actors role-play.... and no one thinks an actor playing a villain is evil himself.... But I simply cannot role-play something totally outside my real nature. I suppose that means I'm missing some questlines. Well.... that's fine. I don't have any issues with that.

I get where you are coming from because there are some games where I cant go evil but than there are others I can. Like when I play Mass Effect games I cant bring myself to choose Renegade and be a complete A-Hole about things. But in Star Wars I find it fun to turn to the dark side and kill everything, so there are times I can go evil or whatever but mostly if I dont feel its for fun than I cant do anything but good. I am also bad at Role-Playing because if I really want a certain item I always go for it even if I going a certain way like good char or bad char, I just dont care if its out of context for the char to get that item I want.
User avatar
Mike Plumley
 
Posts: 3392
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:45 pm

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:30 am

Does anyone find it strange that we care about the fact that a bunch of pixels murder, rob or extort another bunch of pixels? It's an interesting phenomena indeed.

That being said though...

I think Bethesda did a good job in that not one of the guilds are pure good or evil. All of them presents you with an interesting moral dilemma as you follow the quests.

Their is no place in any guild for an all white hero. You have to turn a blind eye here and there to progress in any of them which makes it interesting. What bothers me though is that the rewards for being a murdering bastard in this game is better than saving the world from total destruction. You get 20K gold and a very good set of armour for murdering an emperor but you get junk for saving the world from ending. Weird.

I would have loved it if the DB in Skyrim was rid of all this religious crap. Assassins should be cold blooded professionals not Daedra worshipping bloodthirsty creeps. And getting my orders from a many thousand year old corpse who likes hugs? Screw it, I'll start my own guild. No weirdos welcome.

Compared to the DB I honestly don't have much of a problem in being a Nightingale as a thief. Sure the guild members are little more than thugs when you start out but that is because the current leader is a backstabbing, thieving bully. Once he is removed the guild can be redeemed and at least most of them shuts up about religion on the job. Maybe thats because Nocturnal don't care much for worship which suits me just fine. So I have to guard her pad in the afterlife for a bit before moving on. Heck, it's a small price to pay considering that the alternatives are being a butt licking, howling hound or being tortured for eternity by Sithis. That's if I don't wake up in Oblivion as some other Daedric idiot's toy because I failed to read the fine print on the Atronauch forge.
User avatar
Gemma Archer
 
Posts: 3492
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:02 am

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:47 am

You have to put an two innocent people in jail for life and ruin their businesses,

Funny thing - one of those people still managed to attend my wedding. :goodjob:
User avatar
KRistina Karlsson
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:22 pm

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:53 am

I think it's just really difficult. I joined on a good character and you just can't do it. You have to put an two innocent people in jail for life and ruin their businesses, you have to threaten families and break property to get money, not to mention all the killing you have to do. The Thieves' Guild of Skyrim just isn't like Oblivion's.
If you refer to the distillery owner, he's not a saint... just ask him how he treats his assistant. He loaned him money knowing that he would never be able to repay in full so that he got his free services know in exchange of canceling the debt (which he hints it won't happen anytime soon).

Bran Shei actually tried to fence some stolen items without the approval of the guild so by plotting his demise, you actually help keeping crime under control. I only felt bad for the Pawned Prawn owner... the rest of the people are guilty of something so you're not actually committing injustices against 'good' guys.
User avatar
Josh Sabatini
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:47 pm

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:05 pm

If you refer to the distillery owner, he's not a saint... just ask him how he treats his assistant. He loaned him money knowing that he would never be able to repay in full so that he got his free services know in exchange of canceling the debt (which he hints it won't happen anytime soon).

Bran Shei actually tried to fence some stolen items without the approval of the guild so by plotting his demise, you actually help keeping crime under control. I only felt bad for the Pawned Prawn owner... the rest of the people are guilty of something so you're not actually committing injustices against 'good' guys.

Just because someone does a slightly bad thing it doesn't mean that any punishment will do. So Brand-Shei tried to fence something, should he be locked up for the rest of his life? The Honningbrew guy was a jerk, but ditto - I didn't know that being a jerk was a crime. And the people you rough up and threaten? So the inn owner is mean to you, is threatening to hurt her family a good reaction to that? So Haelga sleeps with guys, big deal. It's all stupid. Very few characters in this game are completely 100% innocent of anything, but that doesn't mean they deserve to have the crap beaten out of them or be thrown in jail forever. And I didn't join the thieves' guild to be a thug, I joined it to steal.
User avatar
Marine Arrègle
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:19 am

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:58 am

Sorry to all you milk-drinking Robin Hood wannabes, but this ain't your father's Thieves Guild. This is a criminal organization.

Think of Skyrim's Thieves Guild as The Sopranos.

Everyone complained about how gay the whole Robin Hood thing in Oblivion was and how it would be so much better if the Thieves Guild was an actual criminal organization and Beth took that into consideration and designed a great guild this time around and then people just go right back to complaining about how they wish they were Robin Hood again.

It's a never ending circle with some people. The circle of life, Simba.
User avatar
Monika Krzyzak
 
Posts: 3471
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:29 pm

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:35 am

*shrug* I never complained about the Oblivion version, personally.
User avatar
David Chambers
 
Posts: 3333
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 4:30 am

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:04 pm

I use the term "everyone" broadly and loosely. There was a very large and very vocal group against the Thieves Guild.

Thieves. They steal things that other people own and worked for. There's no "honor" in that, no matter how much popular fiction likes to romanticize the concept, it just doesn't exist. I enjoy the realism and logical treatment of a group of people that steal things for a living in this game. It actually makes you feel like a criminal.
User avatar
Alexis Estrada
 
Posts: 3507
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:22 pm

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:10 am

I see no way to justify it. I "tried" to join it on my honorable character, but the moment I had to shake down the Argonians in the inn, causing them to hate me, I instantly reloaded and killed the thieves guild. Well, you can't really kill them, but I got them to open the closet with a glitch and I killed 60% of their members. Stupid thieves.

Those Argonians owed a debt and were welshing. In addition they lied when they said they didnt have the money.
User avatar
SexyPimpAss
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:24 am

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:26 pm

The issue I'm having is the very end quest, pledging your soul to Nocturnal. A. Conan character would be about Sovngarde, not Nocturnal or shadows. Do you guys feel the Dragonborn's pact with Nocturnal is binding or has anyone justified it? Only other option I see is walking away at that point and leaving the quest open, but my OCD can't handle unfinished quests.

Thoughts?
@House Stark -

For the OP and many others like myself it's not about the fact that the guild is a criminal organisation rather the Robin Hood's merry band. It's about the whole "all you gotta do is sell your soul" crap they've put in most of the guild quests.
User avatar
Lory Da Costa
 
Posts: 3463
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:30 pm

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:34 pm

I never got that far. Because I had bad feelings about both the TG and DB questlines from the word go and did some research. I suppose there are people who actually can divorce their "real selves" from what they play in a game - but I simply can't do that. And I've been playing CRPGs since 1985 (and AD&D PnP games since the mid-70s....)

Role-play is one thing. Actors role-play.... and no one thinks an actor playing a villain is evil himself.... But I simply cannot role-play something totally outside my real nature. I suppose that means I'm missing some questlines. Well.... that's fine. I don't have any issues with that.

I quit playing my thief/assassin, too, as much as I liked some of the gear (shrouded gauntlets!) I just wasn't enjoying being such a $#!?. Started off with noble(ish) intentions, but the questlines weren't for me, and didn't seem they'd reward my efforts.
Nothing against Bethesda or players who enjoyed those guilds.
User avatar
Stephanie Kemp
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:39 am

Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:36 pm

I think that the only guild questline where you can keep a squeaky clean conscience is the Mage's College. The Companions are a close second, but... there is some furry baggage to carry around as a Companion.
-Loth
User avatar
~Amy~
 
Posts: 3478
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:38 am

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim