First, I'll explain what I mean about the "more is more is less" thing
You want more options, right? Well, here's the catch: the option you're asking for takes away from the value of the other two.
Think of it this way: Imagine you're at your local burger joint(let's say McDonalds, for simplicity's sake). The menu has two sections: hamburgers and chicken sandwiches. Each option has its own pros and cons, and appeals to different people for different reasons. You, however, like both chicken sandwiches AND hamburgers, so you want something that's a mix of both

Now imagine that one day, you walk in and you see a new item the menu: the chickamburger(I know the name is ridiculous, but bear with me). This new item is half-chicken patty, half hamburger patty. You think "oh great! that's exactly what I want! the best of both worlds"

so like a good customer you order mcdonald's newest item, and start to chow down. right away, you notice one thing: it's not as good as either of the two choices it combines. It's got part of the flavor of each sandwich that it was made from, but they don't taste as good as they originally did. it tries to do both, but it ends up as a sup-par blend of the two

At the end of the day, the chickamburger doesn't satisfy as much as a hamburger or a chicken sandwich by itself. Furthermore, both sandwiches lose some of their value, as the chickamburger copies part of what makes them special. In the end, the introduction of a middle ground fails to live up to its intended purpose

That about sum it up? It's basically one of the biggest beefs I have with RP junkies like you: you want more options, but don't care about the quality of the new options or the way it affects the options you had to begin with.
I oppose the medium armor type because I don't just want more options- I want more GOOD options.
What do I have to do to get my point across? stab it into other people's monitors?

I can enjoy the game with options I don't like. the problem is when those options I don't like infringe on the ones I do. And don't use my own quote on me, as that's not what I mean at all. I want to be able to have a tangible difference in what I choose.
It's like the problem with heavy armor-take the perks for it, and it's most of the good of light armor, but better. That takes away from the value of light armor, because heavy armor is better at almost everything. What I want is good options-options that don't make other choices sub-par, and aren't exactly the same as everything else I can choose

And to answer your question, it would impact my game because I'd be left with a third option that tries to take what's good about the other two options, and just feels like it doesn't belong

Considering i can get to the armor cap with smithing and light armor, i would say its more for the armor model for me i'll see which armor i like, then i'll go for that particular armor type.

It would just add a third armor type for those of us that wanted it. It would not directly impact any game that currently exist unless you want to wear it. There is nothing wrong with the idea its a middle ground. Its not a complete nexus they should each have their own traits. It is just a third option, its another option I miss that has been removed from the series.

Yes. Medium Armor is an option in the Imperial Legion and armor such as glass armor should really be medium armor.

No. Medium armor should be in Skyrim for the reasons I have described already in this thread. I mentioned both Morrowind and Dragon Age: Origins as examples, not as a suggestion that I want TES: Origins or Morrowind 2.0

I'm not at all averse to there being more armor types, and especially a wider variety of cosmetic differences - nor am I opposed to there being an unbroken continuum of armor values. I don't say that there has to be a big gap between the best light armor and the weakest heavy armor or anything like that. I'm just opposed to the "Morrowind did it this way so Skyrim should do it this way" argument.

Okay, fair enough.

Here is another anology, I love to cook so I got a recipe that combines chicken and ground beef. I make the chicken in one pan and the beef in the other, I make a cheese marinara sauce that will help both flavors bleed together with basil. I simmer the sauce cook the chicken and beef to perfection and add them to the sauce and I serve over a bed of penne sprinkled with olive oil. Its a different and very palatable dish. Different yes but good.

Now I want a combination of chicken (light armor) and beef (hamburger) to be merged in this game because I like that middle ground. The option works as a middle ground as it is a step up and down in terms of defense and stamina. Its an option that worked in Morrowind and it served its purpose of not having as much armor than heavy and it was faster than heavy, it was not as fast as light but it had a higher armor rating. It was useful in that regard: for us roleplaying junkies it was a big loss from Morrowind to Oblivion and we want it back, they have been hacking away content from this series for years, now its time to add instead of taking away.

Also I love your post it made me laugh about the whole chicken burger thing.

They have inserted plenty, in case you didn't notice. The problem is they want the workload checkbook balanced. So that means, since big rewrites, that anything that comes in have to remove something that used to be. I do agree though, there is so much stuff I miss (since Daggerfall and even older and better systems like Realms of Arkania).

I wouldn't mind medium armor, but I'd be more interested in seeing much improved armor mechanics. Personally I thought FONV was pretty decent, and I like the idea of strength requirements or face some consequence. Like, everyone could pick up a .50 cal sniper rifle, but failing to meet its requirement you suffered penalty to aiming stability.

The only things they have added that is noticeable in Skyrim is the perks and the amazing new world that trump Oblivions to shame. They should not need to cotinue to cut away things sequels add to not continue to take away. I think more option is better, a feature set with as much depth that Morrowind had would be great in Skyrims world, (I have never got to play Daggerfall but I know it has more) I just think they should add instead of noticeably removing features from this series.

all of that is purely subjective.....what if i LOVE the chickamburger, it's everything i want in a sandwich...you're telling me it shouldn't even be on the menu because YOU find it not as good as a hamburger, or chicken sandwich.

and please don't take this as a direct attack, i'm just trying to figure out the logic of some of these arguments

See my beefy chicken pasta, it was a big hit at my house.

More is more I wish people would see that.

you could always just unlock the perk that makes your armor weightless. dual enchanted daedric armor for 700+.



and as long as were talking food, picture this........

my turducken. take a duck, shove it in a chicken, shove chicken into turkey, and shove turkey back into the original duck.

would be nice to have more armor, but I do hate finding Light armor all the time when I use heavy

As long as its stupidly easy to hit the mitigation cap with the lightest armor the game has, what really is the point of any armor class? Perks make weapons and armor meaningless in this game, just so long as you have something occupying those slots to activate the perks. Light armor, supposedly the lesser of the 2 armor classes, can hit the mitigation limit just as easily as Heavy armor. I've been swinging the exact same ebony greatsword for 25 levels now, Ancient dragons and dungeon bosses are the only things that aren't dead in 2 seconds when I close the distance. I haven't gamed the blacksmithing/enchant stuff either.

Hopefully an expac, or more likely the next Elder Scrolls will bring some meaning back to gear. Highest level Heavy armor plus shield should be the only way of hoping to hit the physical damage mitigation cap. The other TWO armor classes Elders Scrolls is supposed to have shouldn't be able to, but have other benefits. Please, modders, bring back meaninful choices to outfitting your character other than 'playing dress-up'.

Okay... that isn't what the thread is about.

back at you. it's the problem with opinion: everyone thinks theirs is right, and everyone else should go die in a hole
I just side with Bethesda a lot of the time because I get really sick of seeing whole threads filled with comments that basically translate to "I know what's best for the Elder Scrolls better than they do"

IMO, I don't get why people want options that basically translate out to choosing which outfit to wear when they're all exactly the same, except different colors. If they're all practically the same, why choose them? Still, some people like it that way, and I'm not gonna change any minds.

and on a side note(don't take this personally, as it's not aimed at you) if you want something in the game, get a PC if you don't already have one, quit talking about how the game could be better and SHOW bethesda how you think things should be done. I want katanas, so I'm teaching myself 3ds max just so I can add new weapons/armor in.
Oh, and stahlrim. that's cool too

Ooh, no, you want to find the light armor. You can only use one suit of armor at a time, right? All you need is that one suit of heavy armor. When it comes to armor as treasure, though, light is far better. It's worth far more dollars per pound, which is the relevant figure to keep track of. I'll always pass over a suit of steel armor and pick up all the light stuff, even hide bracers, that are worth over ten bucks a pound. Go ahead and divide the dollar value of a suit of iron armor by its weight in pounds and see what you get, then do the same for a suit of leather or hide armor, and see what you get. It gets even better when you start finding stuff like elven. About the only better things are the better ores, which are very rare, and gems, which can be worth something like 2000 gold per pound.

So long as I have my one suit of legendary heavy armor, I'm all about finding the light stuff in dungeons.

i'm on console, but i totally agree. i think it's awesome that you are working on making the game better. the last defense i'll make of my postion is this. yes my opinion is MY opinion and totally equal to YOUR opinion. and honestly, i never even wore medium armor in morrowind. however, my opinion holds that more options should be included, regardless of personal preference. i have made it a point to comment in these forum on any topic that talks about excluding options. yes opinions are all different, and i respect every single one of them, up to the point where people say things should be removed and or left out because of it being "OP" or "useless"

I feel that the removal of Medium armour skewed the armour grading. The removal of durability did something similar.

Back in the days of Morrowind, you had a place for Fur, Chain and Plate, all of which are very different armour concepts when it comes to moving in them. With Oblivion, chain became something of a heavy armour, something which, IMO, should be reserved only for Plate armours. This became even worse when you get to Skyrim with the return of Orcish armour and 'Steel plate'.

What once ran as Iron - Steel - Dwarven - Ebony - Daedric
Now looks like Iron - Steel - Dwarven - Steel -- Orcish - Ebony - Daedric.

Somehow, a full suit of steel plate offers more protection than a suit of full plate made of superior material? And Orcish, which is essentially just reinforced Chainmail, is more protective than both? And at the same time, it highly skews the wepaon gradient, since orcish weapons are only sightly better than Steel, but somehow the armour is two levels above Dwarven.

Then again, a great many appropriate and beleivable skills have been removed from the game for no other purpose than streamlining. Look at the weapon skills. Speaking from experience, fighting with a Dagger and a Sword are two different skills entirely. Using Sword skills with a mace is like trying to cook a turkey by rubbing your hands together really fast. It makes absolutely no sense.

I agree witht he mentality that More is More. Choice is good, and while i applaud many of the change sthat have come over the years (Particularly getting rid of those damned classes) the ever diminishing skills is not one of them.

this x 1000, well said

I do not want you to die in a hole

Yes we all have our own opinion that is why we are all here that and our love for this series and that I think we can agree on my friend.

I have to disagree with the idea that all weapon skills are utterly unrelated. Yes, I understand that a battleaxe and a thin rapier are worlds apart, but a longsword and a mace are not quite so dissimilar - they're both longish one-handed weapons that are swung to slice or smash the target. The mace can't be used to stab; the longsword can, but is too long and heavy to be really effective at doing so; a shortsword can both stab and slice fairly effectively. Certainly axes are similar in their use to maces, differing largely only in the type of armor they're most effective against. An axe would be better than a mace against unarmored or lightly armored opponents, since they could possibly dismember an opponent in one blow, while the mace or hammer would simply smash - or perhaps pierce, if the back-end spike were used. Against opponents in heavy plate armor, however, the mace will be more effective, by either denting the opponent's armor and heavily bruising them, or else by punching right through with a spike, if you were using the spike of a warhammer or a spiked mace. Swords are versatile and in-between; they can lop off limbs like axes, but not so effectively, they're possibly faster than the heavier maces and axes and might have more reach, they could (possibly) stab, while not being as good at stabbing as a shortsword or long dagger. Their only weakness might be the truly heavy plate armors, which is why so many late-medieval soldiers carried other weapons to deal with heavily armored infantry and cavalry.

But all that being said, it's a little silly to have each and every weapon have its own skill. Really, if a guy becomes an expert with an axe, and never touches a mace, does it really sound logical to say he's therefore no more skilled at using a mace than a guy who's never touched any weapon at all?

a mace and an axe have way more in common than a sword and an axe. remember with an axe/mace, the "business end" is in play far less of the time than a sword. it's a totally and completely different style of fighting(trust me as someone who has trained and studied both) they NEED to be differentiated. i'd honestly perefer 1 hand sword/2hand sword, 1hand blunt/2hand blunt.

I agree with this they should all have their own unique skill sets and be treated different as they are all different.

It requires different tactics and skill to wield and use each one effectively my good sir, as you would know since you trained with them.

Right now in this game the axes, swords, and maces all feel they same and they should not.