So I was thinking back to when I played Oblivion, and I miss the "Class" System. I was disheartened when Skyrim didn't have it. I will miss my class. I understand way they did it though, to try and make people go for the highest level possible, but when they took it out, Skyrim stopped feeling like an RPG. What's your opinion on this matter?

I do like the classes in RPGs and I hope they'll bring back classes and attributes in the next installments but for me it still feels like an RPG. It's 'light' in RPG mechanics, but it's rich in RPG roleplay opportunities.

I feel like everytime I make a character I have a particular set of skills I want to take advantage of. This usually resulted in me creating a custom class in which the label existed outside of the game (in my head). Oblivion -- being completely audio base had no way to acknowledge class and only acknowledged skills so I wasn't too disappointed with them being removed.

Classes don't make rpgs. Stats do. And they svck in Skyrim.

At first I'd agree with you. This made it really hard to choose my character's specialties and such at first. As I played though, I understood how it all worked together. And honestly, I like this way more. There are still classes in a sense, but fine-tuned to your preferences

some of the best rpgs ever have no classes

Name them.

Classes are not necessarily important to a game being an RPG. I've played any number of tabletop & digital RPGs that didn't have defined "classes".

As for Oblivion classes.... no, I don't particularly miss them. Mainly because I never used them - I always used a "custom" class, with Major skills chosen to metagame my stat gains, not to make a coherent "class" out of them. (heck, most of the time, the Majors I chose weren't actually the skills I was going to play with - they were ones that I could "practice" in my house, to force a level gain when my +stat modifiers were high enough.)

Well, it's not really about picking a class, but developing one. It doesn't mean it doesn't have any classes.

I always picked a "knight" because I was tired of making Custom classes lol, that said I don't want how they were done in past games. what I would like is a -choice- to meld into one. whether it be to pick one as a Character History or "play into that class" I personally ultimately want that descision to matter. Radiant stories are more likely to give me Escort missions and work for nobles, while being a "hunter" I'd be more likely to -hunt- instead of fightign off a bandito Assault.


That said, Relish in your ability to have critiques, I'm not sure about the title per say. but there are places that will ban you purely for having a gripe ;p.

Classes in a party based RPG, like a WoW, Final Fantasy Tactics, or Mass Effect are good because they allow for synergy between players, or allies. They're more necessary because your success is based upon the team, rather than the player. Even a game like FF13 still had a class system but it was more interchangeable and not set in stone.

Classes in a single player RPG? Not really necessary as you're not working for an overall goal. The only person who cares about your class is yourself and at that point it's arbitrary and useless. My character is the DPS, tank, and healer.

For me the big point tha tknow SKyrim off the "cRPG" table aren't it lack of classes, but player skill over character skill in the success of actions, Extremely weak story and quests, with almost universal linearity and scipts to follow or they break. Lack of character depth in NPC's and lack of Impact on the world. It's an action adventure game, and you can "LARP" in but fails as a meaningful RPG.

I've wondered why they completely did away with character specialization. Could've been as basic as TAG skills from FO. You don't pick a class, just a couple skills your character was good at before the game started. Instead every single character is the same.

It's weird that people ever play TES games without making a custom class. I think I tried playing as a stock thief in Daggerfall or Morrowind once. That didn't last long. Much more fun to make a class good at doing things I like spending my time doing.

As a result, I don't really miss the lack of classes in Skyrim. Skyrim seems to do a better job of directing players to use specific skills anyway. In older TES games you could easily level any skills you wanted and become a master of things opposite to your class choice. The one area where I had a problem is because I wanted to play a Nord archer, but got an inital bonus to two-handed. Helgen and Bleak Falls Barrow were scarier for that. Sometimes the sword came out.

Elder Scrolls games have always been Character Driven.

Not stats driven.

Not class driven.

But Character Driven.

Some people need their hands holding and all this filling in for them or they wouldn't be struggling to role play in an Elder Scrolls game.

Bethesda give the player a lot of rope to work with and this can help to create an incredibly satisfying RPG experience.

However a few do seem to find a way to hang themselves with it.

I can see where people who miss the class system are coming from because it used to always just be there...

But just because you didn't start the game by declaring yourself "A Ranger"... what's stopping you from being "A Ranger"?

Azrael
The Nord with the Sword

sounds like you just ignored all previous TES game mechaics and gameplay to "make your point" for Skyrim. XD

This, the default classes in Oblivion was terrible for raising your attributes. An warrior with all the strength based skills as master would have serious problems getting high strength without gimping himself. If you either took blade or blunt as master and used the other + hand to hand to raise strength you would end up more powerful.
As an thief you would not want lock picking as major, it was an non combat skill and nice to get the agility points.

Hey, another one of these threads! Here's my opinion: I don't need numbers on a screen telling me what I can and cannot do. I impose restrictions on myself, and that's how I create a class. My rogue, for example, was banned from learning or using any type of magic whatsoever. My Cleric, on the other hand, only has access to Restoration and Alteration-- and is banned from bladed weapons (so 1h maces only).

I don't need something telling me I can't case x spell because I don't have y intelligence. I love the new leveling/perk system. It still feels like an RPG to me, and I can FEEL my character getting stronger in his chosen specialties.

I think you've kind of gotten my point without actually getting it.

If previous mechanics have become obsolete, superfluous or un-necessary why carry them on to Skyrim?

Az

I miss attributes. I think we needed a retooled attribute system maybe with general perks tied into it but I always made a custom class. I built some of my characters around a Nightblade or Spellsword concept but I chose what they would use roleplaying wise.

Paranoia
Pulp
GURPS
Megatraveller
Call of Cthulhu
World of Darkness

No I'm saying your talkign like TES never had these features, but infact EVERY TES had them aside from Skyrim. XD So how could TES be about things that it's no about if yo ulook over the history of the series?

Don't carry them, change it into something worth while. Its not really important how you percieved the Numbers or stats et al, Your character doesn't care nor benefits game wise what you think they may be, the actions you make them undertake in the GAME rules them. and I feel its all kinds of immersion breaking (oh noes buzz words) when I think my character is "strong" as an oxen but deals little damage to some guy in fur ;p

No, he's right. You don't have to have either a chosen-from-the-start class or a long list of attributes to make the game an RPG. RPG means you're playing a character that you create, and that's very possible in Skyrim. I get more ideas for characters in Skyrim than I ever did with Oblivion.

CLASS There's simply no need for a classes mechanic to be in the game. In Oblivion and other earlier TES games, you could either pick a pre-made class or make on of your own devising, while in Skyrim you simply make your own. In earlier games (I only played Oblivion, but that one at least for sure ) this affected leveling because of the system of major and minor skills. Only use of major skills leveled you, and so this provided a means for people to engage in game-breaking behavior - "efficient leveling", in this case. Characters don't think of "leveling", and leveling isn't a part of the game, but is rather a mechanic and part of the game system. Skyrim ditches pre-made classes and the major/minor skill system and simply adopts a system where leveling any skill levles the character. You simply use the skills you want to get good at, and you get good at the skills you use. Your character class can be described as the sum total of your skills, if you want, in a way. Get good at all six classes and leave the armor and weapon skills and the "stealth" skills alone, and congratulations: you're a mage. Great at illision, with some minor degree of skill in the other magic skills, and great at lockpicking and sneaking, with a little light armor skill and some speechcraft? I guess you're an illusionist-thief. Or whatever: figure out what you are and what your character does, and use the appropriate skills accordingly, and you will become that thing. The great advantage of Skyrim's way of doing things over Oblivion's: the lack of an "official" class means you can change class any time you like by simply changing what you're doing, rather than being saddled with a fixed class from the start of the game.

STATS Well, you still have stats - skill levels, health, stamina and magic power, plus gender, race and name. Attributes are gone, but they were unnecessary anyway, and again were simply an avenue for people to play the game system rather than the game. If you want to be a big, brawny warrior, go swing your sword at bad guys a lot and put 2/3rds of your resulting levels into Stamina. Want to be a high-intelligence-and-willpower mage? Use your magic skills a lot and put the resulting levels into magic power. (I can't bring myself to use the silly word "magicka". Magic has no "k" in it, folks. Take note.) So what are the stats needed for, except as a means of min/maxing and crunching numbers, neither of which is role-playing?

Go look at the diveristy of mechanics used in pen-and-paper RPGs. As a good example, contrast 1st edition AD&D with the Champions game, which used the Hero Role-Playing System, a points-buy system.

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A game cannot be "about" its mechanics. The mechanics serve the game, and when a better system comes along you drop the old mechanic and adopt the new. There's no point to doing otherwise. TES is not "about" attributes, it's about being a character that starts out as a prisoner and then becomes...well, becomes whatever the player wants the character to become. Attributes and especially classes are not necessary.