Skyrim's Opening svcks! : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:24 am

I like Skyrim's opening very much. Wish the rest of the game lived up to it.

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:31 pm

I have liked all of the openings of the newer TES games (Morrowind and on). Really cool ways to get you into your character I think. Skyrim's was awesome solely because of the cart ride. The execution scene needed to have much better animation in my opinion. The major say what? in the story is a bit troubling too. Why wouldn't Alduin just sit and watch from a distance for bit and wait for the headsman to do his job. I think it would have been better if a group of Stormcloaks interrupted the execution giving you a chance to get free and then Alduin also intervened trying to kill you causing general chaos. As it stands, Alduin is a giant idiot for not waiting for another minute.

On a more general level I think BGS studios needs to focus on smaller scale stories. If every inhabited place is going to be a hamlet, then make a story about hamlets and smaller scale things. If you can't stage a battle between two factions with more than 20 characters on the screen at once, then make the battles revolve around a smaller story. That, or chill with the fancy graphics for the kiddies and make bigger set pieces, and bigger battles, and massive cities with increased AI and reactivity and decreased graphics.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:42 am

Skyrim's opening is awesome.

LOL, the intro is terrible like the meat of the game.

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:43 pm

I don't get it.

You're forced to not look at Alduin?

Your hands are tied and risk certain death running?

Prisoner opening sequence is contrite?

Did they even play another TES?

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:36 pm

Skyrim's intro seemed fine, beyond throwing Alduin out there kind of early. There was no real need to personally attach him in, and he might've been better served keeping his mystery until at least the Dragon Resurrection quest. Granted, if you didn't pop subtitles on, its easy to miss that it is Alduin.

The tutorial part (beyond seeming contrived in that everyone gets free of their bonds except you within seconds of the attack starting) just drags out too far. You really aren't free into the world until you finish out Dragon Rising, at which point you're a Thane of Whiterun and largely established as yon hero of legend. Theres the brief love triangle quest, which is largely to introduce a follower tutorial, and Bleak Falls (whoever you go there for) is mainly to justify the Shout Word. Other then that, theres little to do or be found between Riverwood and Whiterun, and venturing in other trajectories tends to hurl you into pre-placed monsters that can hand your low-level butt to you. (Forsworn in the west, Vampires on the road to Falkreath, potential dragons at word walls and frost trolls in the north mountain passes, trolls and mage groups blocking the east roads). Even hunting down the work around Whiterun fast whittles down to bounty missions that also send you into the Dragon Rising.

You're basically already 2-3 hours into the game and had some of its best tricks whipped out before you really get to set off in your own directions, which is a massive departure from Morrowind, or even Oblivion.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:59 am

I think Skyrims' opening is one of the best "set-pieces" they've ever done!

Skyrims opening is great!

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:09 pm

Well it's totally true what they said. You know you're not going to die and the same with Stormcloake so they've killed the immersion already. Honest guys, look at the game properly, it's full of poorly thought out pieces and quests with no originally at all. The only reason why it's popular is mostly because it's an Elder Scrolls game and a big open world but it's world is fully of repetitive, boring gameplay.

More you play Skyrim more you realise how poor it is and the only thing really worth doing is exploring because Bethesda killed the game with the piss poor quests.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:08 am

Skyrim's intro seemed fine, beyond throwing Alduin out there kind of early. There was no real need to personally attach him in, and he might've been better served keeping his mystery until at least the Dragon Resurrection quest. Granted, if you didn't pop subtitles on, its easy to miss that it is Alduin.

The tutorial part (beyond seeming contrived in that everyone gets free of their bonds except you within seconds of the attack starting) just drags out too far. You really aren't free into the world until you finish out Dragon Rising, at which point you're a Thane of Whiterun and largely established as yon hero of legend. Theres the brief love triangle quest, which is largely to introduce a follower tutorial, and Bleak Falls (whoever you go there for) is mainly to justify the Shout Word. Other then that, theres little to do or be found between Riverwood and Whiterun, and venturing in other trajectories tends to hurl you into pre-placed monsters that can hand your low-level butt to you. (Forsworn in the west, Vampires on the road to Falkreath, potential dragons at word walls and frost trolls in the north mountain passes, trolls and mage groups blocking the east roads). Even hunting down the work around Whiterun fast whittles down to bounty missions that also send you into the Dragon Rising.

You're basically already 2-3 hours into the game and had some of its best tricks whipped out before you really get to set off in your own directions, which is a massive departure from Morrowind, or even Oblivion.

I would agree with you save for one thing :

You can explore the entire world as soon as you leave Helgen, and every tree of perks all while never setting a single foot in Riverwood. Let alone Whiterun.

Now, if you want shouts... well guess what? You're gonna have to go kill some dragons, which takes all of 5 freaking minutes after one quest that maybe takes 30 minutes.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:30 am

I wouldnt compare ES intros to other games that concentrate on cinematics and set paths. Its a game where the average player can spend 100-300 hours playing. Just the fact that they spent the time creating a very detailed intro is something to be happy about.

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:51 pm

I would agree with you save for one thing :

You can explore the entire world as soon as you leave Helgen, and every tree of perks all while never setting a single foot in Riverwood. Let alone Whiterun.

Now, if you want shouts... well guess what? You're gonna have to go kill some dragons, which takes all of 5 freaking minutes after one quest that maybe takes 30 minutes.

I mentioned this, if you run towards Falkreath, you run into some vampires chewing on hunters for breakfast that set you up for dessert. Forsworn if you decide to veer a bit more northwest. Take your pick of Frost Trolls or heavy (for the unequipped) mages the other routes. Like any RPG beef gate, they're not insurmountable, or even unavoidable, but the path is laid before you just as much as the annoying long route to New Vegas was set up by placed Deathclaws and Cazador flocks.

As the timeframe goes, I'm looking at the first run through. Sure, second or third time around I can speed into Whiterun in 20 minutes, since I'm skipping all the dialogue I can and know where I'm going and what to do, and that the room with eight giant spiders in it won't kill me if i charge in solo flailing like a nitwit at them.. And then I'm not listening to Irilieth's speeches and figured out that her and her squad will teleport to me once the dragon fight starts anyways, and most of that Are You/Aren't you Dragonborn crap is just ambient dialgoue and I can walk off.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:25 am

I don't like the epic opening sequences used in the last two games.

What's so epic about them? :blink:

First one you get out of a ship talk to some guys and that's it
Second one you are in sewers and kill some goblins and rats

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:37 pm

I wouldnt compare ES intros to other games that concentrate on cinematics and set paths. Its a game where the average player can spend 100-300 hours playing. Just the fact that they spent the time creating a very detailed intro is something to be happy about.

The issue (From the reviewer's standpoint) is that the introduction DOESN'T match the rest of the game well - Yes, Skyrim is an awesome game (The reviewers themselves acknowledge they can't get back to playing it), however, their job is to anolyze video games and see what elements work, and what don't. In their case, the introduction sequence of Skyrim is NOT handled well, and it does the game an injustice.

Dudebag here seems to have missed the point of the video, which DOES mention that Skyrim is an epic gaming experience.

Then it would seem that you and I have different opinions on what exactly epic is, perhaps I just have higher standards than most or perhaps you have set the bar so low that even a monkey in a tutu could pass as being "epic". But please if you feel that Skyrim was SO epic then perhaps you would like to elaborate on what exactly it is that makes Skyrim so epic?

And no I will not be accepting "the amount of content" as an answer, I dont care if Skyrim boasts over 300 hours of gameplay I only care about the quality. Skyrim is like the buffet table at Chucky Cheese, sure you get more for your money but none of it is of a high quality.

Maybe the fact that it matches the http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epic ^2,3,4 of http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=epic?
At 16 square miles, with ten distinct environments, and almost a thousand steps up to High Hrothgar, it is "Massive and Imposing in scale". The scope of the story and depth of the world speak back to the Norse Epics of old, especially Beowulf.

If you had actually read the thread instead of just the title you would know that the problem goes far deeper than just the opening scene as most of Skyrims set pieces and the set pieces of the Elder Scrolls Series as a whole suffer from the same problems.

Amazing how the very video you quoted disagrees with you on every point except the introduction...

I gotta say that I really hated how all the prisoners formed an orderly line and casually placed their head on the chopping block as if to say "please Mr Headsman, chop off my head I dont mind", I really expected to see the prisoners at least put up some fight before they axe came down on their neck.

Then maybe you should have actually noticed what was going on - Stormcloaks are Epic-obsessed lemmings who consider it a "victory" if their lives make it into an Epic.

Yes, I am using the word Epic a lot, and I know exactly what it means - It's a style of narrative poem.

Well it's totally true what they said. You know you're not going to die and the same with Stormcloake so they've killed the immersion already. Honest guys, look at the game properly, it's full of poorly thought out pieces and quests with no originally at all. The only reason why it's popular is mostly because it's an Elder Scrolls game and a big open world but it's world is fully of repetitive, boring gameplay.

More you play Skyrim more you realise how poor it is and the only thing really worth doing is exploring because Bethesda killed the game with the piss poor quests.

I've found the gameplay to be neither repetitive nor boring. At least not compared to the gameplay of Call of Duty, Morrowind, or Gothic. Have you been to Lost Valley Redoubt? What am I saying? Of course not...

The only way to make it repetitive is to play the game repetitively - if you try varying your style a bit, the game reciprocates fivefold.

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:49 pm

The issue (From the reviewer's standpoint) is that the introduction DOESN'T match the rest of the game well - Yes, Skyrim is an awesome game (The reviewers themselves acknowledge they can't get back to playing it), however, their job is to anolyze video games and see what elements work, and what don't. In their case, the introduction sequence of Skyrim is NOT handled well, and it does the game an injustice.

Dudebag here seems to have missed the point of the video, which DOES mention that Skyrim is an epic gaming experience.

Really? Because I thought that the point of the video was to talk about how crap the opening was, not talk about how great the game is? Perhaps it is you who missed the point?

Yeah I know at the start of the video it says "You dont need me to tell you that Skyrim is pretty great" and I do agree that Skyrim is a good game even if that quote was more an attempt to quell the inevitable flame war that was bound to be started by the army of TES [censored] who cant handle any opinion that doesnt paint Skyrim as "THE BEST GAME EVAR".

Maybe the fact that it matches the http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epic ^2,3,4 of http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=epic?
At 16 square miles, with ten distinct environments, and almost a thousand steps up to High Hrothgar, it is "Massive and Imposing in scale". The scope of the story and depth of the world speak back to the Norse Epics of old, especially Beowulf.

I suppose on paper the story of the Dovahkiin could be considered epic however its implementation in the game isnt, due the size of the world and the poorly done set-pieces the events simply lack that epic feel. The events in this game just lack that emotional pull that draws the player in and makes them care about the world and its characters.

16 square miles is "Massive and Imposing"? Sure for a game world that is big but considering that it represents an entire province it is tiny, yeah I know it is just a game but to call 16 square miles massive or epic is a joke. High Hrothgar may be the highest mountain in Skyrim however go climb a real mountain and tell me how High Hrothgar compares.

Amazing how the very video you quoted disagrees with you on every point except the introduction...

How so? The video is only talking about the introduction, you cant disagree with points that you dont talk about and even so I dont have to agree with everything the video says, I will form my own opinion on the subject rather than have others tell me what my opinion should be.

The only things I can think of that you might be refering to is the initial quote at the start that says "You dont need me to tell you that Skyrim is pretty great" and the part where he is talking about the "stunning landscapes and vistas" both of which I dont exactly disagree with. It is true that Skyrim does have some beautiful scenery but I would hardly say that it is on an Epic scale.

Then maybe you should have actually noticed what was going on - Stormcloaks are Epic-obsessed lemmings who consider it a "victory" if their lives make it into an Epic.

Yes, I am using the word Epic a lot, and I know exactly what it means - It's a style of narrative poem.

Giving up and laying your head down on the chopping block to die is not something I would consider worthy of an epic, do you think that Orc looking for a good death would consider walking up to a headsman and saying "hey fella mind chopping my head off" a death Malacath would be proud of?

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:06 am

Really? Because I thought that the point of the video was to talk about how crap the opening was, not talk about how great the game is? Perhaps it is you who missed the point?

The point of the video was to talk about how the Opening didn't mesh well with the rest of the game. They also said that it did "Fix" itself - Twenty minutes in, when you finally leave the cave.

Yeah I know at the start of the video it says "You dont need me to tell you that Skyrim is pretty great" and I do agree that Skyrim is a good game even if that quote was more an attempt to quell the inevitable flame war that was bound to be started by the army of TES [censored] who cant handle any opinion that doesnt paint Skyrim as "THE BEST GAME EVAR".

Didn't you hear the end? "Now... time to go play more Skyrim"

I suppose on paper the story of the Dovahkiin could be considered epic however its implementation in the game isnt, due the size of the world and the poorly done set-pieces the events simply lack that epic feel. The events in this game just lack that emotional pull that draws the player in and makes them care about the world and its characters.

That's not what Epics are about - they generally have QUITE bland characters outside a few good ones.

16 square miles is "Massive and Imposing"? Sure for a game world that is big but considering that it represents an entire province it is tiny, yeah I know it is just a game but to call 16 square miles massive or epic is a joke. High Hrothgar may be the highest mountain in Skyrim however go climb a real mountain and tell me how High Hrothgar compares.

How so? The video is only talking about the introduction, you cant disagree with points that you dont talk about and even so I dont have to agree with everything the video says, I will form my own opinion on the subject rather than have others tell me what my opinion should be.

The only things I can think of that you might be refering to is the initial quote at the start that says "You dont need me to tell you that Skyrim is pretty great" and the part where he is talking about the "stunning landscapes and vistas" both of which I dont exactly disagree with. It is true that Skyrim does have some beautiful scenery but I would hardly say that it is on an Epic scale.

He doesn't need to go on at length about it - If it wasn't so great, why would he bother to mention that he's going back to play more of it?

Giving up and laying your head down on the chopping block to die is not something I would consider worthy of an epic, do you think that Orc looking for a good death would consider walking up to a headsman and saying "hey fella mind chopping my head off" a death Malacath would be proud of?

It was more the Resigned Defiance of the Stormcloaks - They died cursing their captors. They're trying to appear as epic heroes, but they lack the balls to follow through.

Again, the introduction of the game falters in that regard - The entire point of the video... but the Main quest, from the Battle by the Western Watchtower, and the final showdown all make up for that.

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:15 pm

I think the opening is awesome, though I was a bit surprised there is no movie. It starts out more quietly, which is fine.

Great video though and they brought up some very valid points, particularly the aweful placing of the character customisation section. And I really hate that you can't redo your character before you leave the tutorial dungeon. You have to play through nearly the entire intro before you can have a good look at your character, which gets old real fast if you're like me and like to try different looks and make minor changes, after you've played with it for a bit.

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:47 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bifmj1O3D24

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:19 am

Before you start this is not a troll thread but a legitimate discussion on the flaws of the set pieces and storytelling within Skyrim.

I call BS on the above statement. if you intended a "legitimate discussion" you would have presented it like a legitimate discussion. Instead you made a thrread title that indicates no room for discussion, and then you try to sell me a bill of goods about how this discussion isn't supposed to have bias.

You fail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 200 dollars, and please, try better to fool me next time.

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:17 pm

Looking at that video from Oblivion.....yeah, now that looks incredibly lame. sorry. It just does.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:47 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bifmj1O3D24

Ok I take it back, Skyrims opening IS epic............ on PC.

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Boo Hoo. Seems the resident fan(boys) here can't take accept any sort of artistic appraisal of skyrim like any other multi-million earning entertainment work is subject to.
The points in the penny arcade video are with merit, and I defy anyone to tell me why they were not valid.

It seems to critisise one aspect of something is to declare one's hate for it, if the juvenile ramblings of morons on this thread are anything to go by.

I hate phillistines who will blindy defend their product of choice, you obviously have LESS appreciation for it and are INCAPABLE of appreciating it with any considerable depth or insight
if you can't objectively handle waranted criticism, in which the point they're making is supported.

God, some people make me ashamed to be part of the same species as the mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging artless tw*ts they are.

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:28 pm

I just think it is mind numbingly stupid that you have to play through it for every character, why no edit character point afte initial creation? Did they think that attributes/classes were the only thing people changed at the end of the sewers/vault?

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:56 pm

Boo Hoo. Seems the resident fan(boys) here can't take accept any sort of artistic appraisal of skyrim like any other multi-million earning entertainment work is subject to.
The points in the penny arcade video are with merit, and I defy anyone to tell me why they were not valid.

It seems to critisise one aspect of something is to declare one's hate for it, if the juvenile ramblings of morons on this thread are anything to go by.

I hate phillistines who will blindy defend their product of choice, you obviously have LESS appreciation for it and are INCAPABLE of appreciating it with any considerable depth or insight
if you can't objectively handle waranted criticism, in which the point they're making is supported.

God, some people make me ashamed to be part of the same species as the mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging artless tw*ts they are.

Well said.

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:43 am

I just think it is mind numbingly stupid that you have to play through it for every character, why no edit character point afte initial creation? Did they think that attributes/classes were the only thing people changed at the end of the sewers/vault?

You mean you think Bethesda actually intended for this game to be played with multiple characters? That's news to me... I mean, it's not like the game ever actually offers you any content, choices, or reaction on character type so I just kind of assumed it was all meant to be played with one character... :tongue:

» Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:55 pm

Im sorry, I dont listen to people that compare skyrim to CoD

and he only played through 1 minute of the game, you can tell by all his errors

it's sovngarde, not savvengard

Its rorikstead, not rorickstead

its helgen, not helgan

its ulfric, not ulfred

its tullius, not tuleous

This guy in peny arcade is completely [censored] and doesn't know what he is talking about

» Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:19 am

I liked the Skyrim's opening very much.