Before you start this is not a troll thread but a legitimate discussion on the flaws of the set pieces and storytelling within Skyrim.

Yeah just saw this on Penny Arcade and felt that it pretty much sums up my feeling on the subject so I thought I might post it here and see what the opinion is of everyone else on these forums.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/skyrims-opening

I also feel that I should point out that it is not just the opening that suffers in this aspect but most of the set pieces in the game and even the game world as a whole. Quite frankly this is something I do feel is a bit disappointing as the team at Bethesda have the resources to create an epic game but always seem to fall short of the mark.

To illustrate my point lets take a look at what was arguably the most epic battle in Oblivion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC4cl1Bvssk

Does anyone else see a problem with this battle? Now I dont know if this is due to the scale of the world or whether the team at bethesda is simply incompetent at creating epic set pieces but that scene leaves a lot to be desired. While you could argue the battles have been improved in Skyrim they really arent that much better, even the funeral of a certain individual or the betrayal of another certain individual (both of which will not be named due to spoileriffic reasons) falls flat on its face as we never actually get to know these characters enough to actually care about them.

Even the game world fails to convey that epic fantasy world feeling, sure the playable area is big but considering that it is supposed to represent an entire province the end result is a world that feels tiny, too much crammed into such a small space and the world feels more like a theme park rather than an epic fantasy world and because so much needs to fit in such a small space major locations need to be scaled down to fit. Solitude feels more like a small walled off village than the sprawling city described in the lore, Markarth feels more like a small fort and the 7000 steps to High Hrothgar becomes the 900 and something steps.

I liked the opening. A bit more dynamic than Morrowind or Oblivion. I would have gladly skipped the tutorial dungeon and I miss the ability to change my race/appearance at the end of it but that's all.

The prisoner formula is here to stay so you can bet also TES VI will begin in a similar way (a prisoner with an unknown past being release by chance).

Skyrim's opening is awesome.

Firstly it`s a game and to have massive cities and massive populations would be more realistic but would be a helluva problem when it came to travelling and finding things-It still should be do-able though-Fast travelling seems to be becoming the norm as it is.
The battles haven`t advanced from Oblivion and the programmers should've considered separate and more scripted routines for dealing with battles-AIs doing specific moves instead of the overhead of working out individual movements and reactions.Then it could have been done.
Maybe the next TES game?

Yeah I do get that, the prisoner aspect has become a tradition in TES games and is not something I would like to see changed and though the Skyrim opening scene was arguably better than the opening scenes in Oblivion and Morrowind (though I will admit Morrowind's opening had its own simplistic charm) the opening scene in Skyrim still left a lot to be desired, in comparing the opening scene in Skyrim to the execution scene in COD4 there is simply no contest.

I like the opening, but I agree somewhat with the set ups and set pieces for certain scenes. I don't have many gripes about the game world as a whole though.

No it doesn't, but I don't think you can expect something like that from a TES game. It doesn't tell a streamlined story and it does set the mood, at least somewhat.

My biggest problem with Skyrim's opening, and Oblivion's for that matter, is that it forces you into the main quest line straight away. I don't like the epic opening sequences used in the last two games. I should be coaxed into learning more about the main quest, not have it shoved in my face immediately.

I don't agree with everything in that Extra Credits video though. They criticize the dialogue during the cart ride and whilst I agree that the delivery is poor the content is relevant and fitting. I don't think it's wise to try and cater to the kind of new players who would be put off the game if they don't understand every reference to the lore and the game world straight away.

For me it comes down to:

1. It is too liniear. When you first step out of the cave you know it is best to follow your new stormcloak/imperial friend. The opening village is about the same for everyone and that feeling of being lost in the world doesnt happen. Everything is explained and you know what you have to do. Perhaps this is why some find this opening awesome.

2. It is too long. A great deal has already happened by the time you are finally free to play the actual ''freeroaming'' game. You've encountered a dragon and killed a great many people. For me this doesnt have that 'blank sheet' feeling that Morrowind/Oblivion had. It is as if your alliance and your place in the world have already been decided (up to some extent).

3. It lacks the WOW factor. After a dragon encounter a nice looking lake isn't as mind blowing as the lake in Oblivion was. Combined with the liniear feel and the fact that the opening dungeon was too long I just couldnt care for it as much.

I watched the first few minutes and it was pseudo-intellectual claptrap.

I stopped watching at the bit where they were going on about the vistas and mountains and saying "where are those" - while deliberately making sure the camera didn't pan because you're already in that landscape - not a spectacular bit of course, but nice Skyrim landscape you'll probably be passing through later, particularly if you do a certain Whiterun quest. They miss the point that the spectacular bits are for you to find because that's the point of exploring. If the game started with the best view, it would be less impressive when you discover the spectacular bits later. If you started in Markarth, you would expect every town to look that awesome and be disappointed when you find they don't.

And why do they belive you have to look at an NPC to "make sense of the conversation"? The first time I played I was looking all round while listening. Because believe it or not I can listen to what someone is saying without having to watch their animated lips move.

What total [censored].

Truely awesome, and any one who sits through that Penny_arcade rubbish..says it all about another minority windger. 353hrs in 2nd char just the best game ever..and Iv played them all. Since ZX81 spec.

Is it just me or the main page when games starts was more epic at least sound it more epic in Oblivion. I remember Oblivion music in main page was giving me goose bumps over and over again!

I think Skyrim's opening was one of the best tbh i found it much better than any RPG ive played recently and alot bettet than morrowinds and oblivions it felt like the beggining for once gave me a sense of purpose and direction to get you started.

Comparing Skyrim to CoD 4 is ridiculous

The intro I found rather dull. As mentioned in the vid, not only did we see very little of interest at the start but with the running about, the game forces you not to look at the dragon, which was the best part.

I for one think Beth could have done a far better Intro. And creating new characters is just annoying as I just don't want to see that first part again. A shame.

Edit: Never played COD.

I'm fine with the opening. It's not really great story-wise, but I sure pooped my pants with the pace change from "cart ride to execution block" to "ack! wtf! Dragoooooon!!11".

For me it was much more engaging than the Oblivion intro at the least. Besides that I'd never expect that much from a Bethesda intro, they've always just been dressed-up tutorials and their main intent is to be .. a tutorial.

I would however have very much appreciated Bethesda made the intro skip-able after a first play through. After the first time the intro just gets tedious imho. Because after all after I've been through it once it looses its tutorial and introduction value, while it just takes way to long before you are actually released from the tutorial if all I want to do is just start the game with a new character.

Thankfully though the intro will be modded out properly when we get the CK. But it'd be nice if Beth finally understood that these long tutorials get repetitive fast.

I like the opening a LOT! But I think if I hadn't played the past Elder Scrolls, I might have been a little confused. it doesn't have the long tutorial like Oblivion, and I felt rushed. But since I knew how to play it, I thought it was exciting. I liked it better the second time. I paid more attention!

I really enjoy Extra Credits but this episode is really one of their worst. They pick apart the begining but only seem to offer that CoD4 did it better. The complaints about Jargon are a little much, you can't avoid Jargon in Fantasy, you just can't unless your setting has no originality. I also feel that the fantasy niche deals with Jargon differently, instead of having it translate to bla bla bla; it instead becomes: What is that? Why is he Improtant? and give the player something to look into. They did go a little Overboard and the Horse Theif really didn't do that great, or terrible; Ralof really saved it, he was really likable and felt like a man that believed his cause. But in the end, it's jsut them compairing a fantasy game with hundreds of hours of content with a dramatized action realaity game with 6 hours of content and then play multiplayer.

As far as set pieces not being epic, it's sadly what you get for the content. They give you a huge world to explore at the cost of set pieces. New Vegas tried to have it both ways and it really kinda lost me, if I would explore, I would just find a lot of nothing and maybe some hard fights to punish me for not going the prescribed path and the characters lost me because they just out and tell me their life story, leave nothing to the imagination. Rex was the only companion I could stand, I don't know why fallout keeps doing this but FAllout 1-NV made me into a lone wolf because I just wanted the companions to die.

I like the opening better than Morrowind and Oblivion- that said I would like to be able to skip the escape sequence from Helgen. I would rather not play that again.

That is exactly the reason why I thought it was a poor beginning. I like the opening for my games, particulary RPG to be very hard. A game that pushes you to explore and learn to trial and error how to be better at it. Skyrim seemed to tell us everything we needed to know right away. ''These are the stormcloacks, these are the Imperials and do you see that elf there? He is Thalmor, they are mixed in with the Empire''.

I didn't really have to talk to talk to NPCs and read books to understand these foreign cultures. In fact I have hardly read any book in Skyrim, while in Morrowind I spend hours upon hours in libraries. Trying to figure out what was what. Stuff like: who was Nerevar? what does Velothi mean? What is the deal with Oblivion? How much power do these Daedric Princes have in Nirn? Etc. Of course this isnt just the openings fault, the entire game lacks this factor.

I love the opening x)
And love that video,comparing call of duty to skyrim?
And how he spells everything lol. Ulfred?

Just keep a save a few seconds before you create your character.

The flipside to that is it's a bit weird if your character has total amnesia and hasn't got clue what the hell is going on in the world. And a lot of players might be turmed off by having to locate a library and read up on who the Stormcloaks are.

That won't have much effect sadly enough. Because you'll still be at the stage in the tutorial right before hell breaks loose. If there were a character creation menu right before you exit the tutorial dungeon then, yes, but since there isn't you'll still have to go through much of the tutorial.

I've always wondered why you start out as a prisoner in TES? Then you end up helping the same people/goverment who imprisoned you? I want a revenge story where you try to rebuild your life while seeking those who took it away from you..prisoner to hero story is lame