You forgot about the http://nerdbastards.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/cliffracer.jpg

Before they even consider adding spellmaking back, I want the magic system fixed first. They've improved the melee since Morrowind - alright, it's not great, but it's passable. Magic has gone pretty downhill, forcing you into enchant/alchemy to use higher level spells. Also, I like the fact you can use spells at any level - but magic should scale, so a person with an eighty in Destruction would do a hell of a lot more than a person with a fifteen. You know, like melee.

As far as Attributes go, bring 'em back but under certain conditions. Either make it no modifiers at level up, just giving you a stat gain per every so many points in a related skill - or "lock" them at the start, but giving you the ability to buy attribute gains via perks (See: Fallout, all of them) making the racial bonuses more important and making it harder to become godlike in every attribute without sacrificing something. The modifiers did add some depth, but encourage more tedious micromanagement of skills ("oops, can't use my blade skill this level or I'll screw up my modifiers.") and was really just more annoying than it was worth.

Were guilds in Morrowind better? Sure. But the stat lock thing is really gamey, and I'm not so sure adding just an artificial roadblock it the ideal solution. After all, getting to be the head of the guild doesn't necessarily mean you're the best candidate, otherwise it probably wouldn't be the player character. Now, if you want to make it interesting - make rank gains fewer, but give the process something to do other than "Hey, your skill's 70 and you've completed fifteen 'go fetch' quests so I'll make you a full fledged Wizard". Becoming a higher rank in the Fighter's Guild might mean having to defeat someone of a higher rank to move up or bring in the head of some dangerous monster. Mages might have to research a new spell, find an old one, or contribute some sort of valuable magic item. Thieves would have to sneak into somewhere difficult, steal or plant something, or maybe frame a fellow guildmate in order to take their spot.

omg i still recall what those mofo sounded like.... and i haven't touched that game in over 7 years. whe u still remember what 1 single mob sounds like YEARS after touching the game u know it was memorable.

msa actually most the quest lines weird tired to use of skills it wasnpt just "go fetch" quests (that was only thfs guild) but really kinda tired of seeing lazy breeze thru bs... and why ppl enjoy it is beyond me. nearly every game type known to man is now "breeze thru in under a week" and that svcks.

having roadblocks does force you to stop and skill cuz no... it makes no sence an under skilled person should be head of an order. and the player is seen as a hero... not the janitor. he/she needs to be strong and well skilled. not dressed in rags with a wooden sword taking out a dragon in a single hit with no idea to what they are doing, or running a school for magic with no idea what magic is. or leading a group of warriors while being the weakest person there.

like I said over anylizing the gameplay is hurting it. you guys think too much on silly things just to back up ur own laziness which is not something i wanted to read. if you dislike my ideas simply do not post... which is something i asked nicely. I just wanted to suggest a more meatier game then an easy breeze through not looking to debate. or having to explain non rp gamers how rpg SHOULD work since gaming is now main stream and non gamers are taking over.

in short i'm just looking for levleing and skilling up to matter when it comes to progression as it should in a proper rpg. and the elder scrolls and fall out seem to be the last rpg of a dying genre... and even they are loosing their rpg muchness (see alice in wonderland tim burton version)
why i posted the suggestions was i was sadden that i pretty much took a character beat nearly every guild as a level 10 character. there was no need for me to level up. there should be meaning to your skills and levels and it should tie into story progression. seriously in a game we can literally BUY our skill ups why not have the morrowind guild system back. and even still that was a fair system as it was that u needed to be certain skill ranks for spells. going lazy man is more or less a game with cheat codes... and i had my fill of ff7s god mode. it just makes the game too easy and dull. if there wasn't road blocks to challenge our characters why even have the game...
games are fun as they challege our resolve as we learn and grow as the story of our character progresses.

No it does not make sense for a novice to become grand dragon. But today's Bethesda probably thinks it hurts the game flow. These are the same people that made all of Skyrim's quests, including the main quest, uninteresting. You want to talk about lazy? Parthaarnax has no thoughts on the civil war, nor do the greybeards. All quests do not interfere with any other quest, no time limits and they wait for you, no consequences for your choices at all, and less than a few real choices. And you can become grand wizard in all guilds because guild members have no opinions on their competition. The world is unauthentic and uninspired. Instead, combat and scenery is favored. Skyrim is not Morrowind. It is somewhat of a middle ground between Morrowind and Oblivion, and it improved some things from Oblivion. That doesn't mean it deserves 94 on Metacritics. Times have changed.

It's been a while since I've played Morrowind, but the amusing thing is that you could still join (and become head of) all three of the guilds. The only real exclusives were the Great Houses and Vampire clans.

The number one issue with this game are the skill points. Dont get me wrong i love the lvling system but there really needs to be a way to reset your skill points.
My skill tree is so screwed up and im already lv 81... it is painful to know that i could be so much stronger if only i could re assin my skill points like KOA, and while reading my gaminformer magazine seeing that the new dlc is going to feture 2 new skill trees one being for the werewolf i figured there has to be a way to do this but i don't believe there is yet. That is what i believe this game really needs...

I know this and i enjoyed it. but you still needed skill ups to progress.


as for other stuff times have not changed as much as people seem to think. Only thing that did change is the quality of games... and that is on a decline. Games are getting too easy and too short. I beat any fable game in days. I can be any resident evel game in two weeks w/o looking up a help guide. I can beat really any game in less then a mtnh. which is why i only buy MMO and TES games as they are not meant to be beaten in a short time.

but now they are. RPG are more then just pretty combat. they are about combat progression and story. we got the combat and story... kinda.... but we lack a need for progression. we just level up because we feel like doing so, just to maybe see higher mobs. Thats it... no reason or need when it comes to story. I was also weirded out that everything was stand alone. Nothing inter connects like it did in past TES.

Todays games cater to the non rpg'er who find leveling a pointless hurdle.... this mindset is entering MMORPG as well. DCUO made it so it took 3 days to hit cap when it first came out. And no one knew their roles for a while. in FFXi and FFXIV all people do is "leech" to cap. (do nothing/afk but still gain levels) TES skyrim was the last place i had for long enjoyable gameplay that made the price tag worth it. And thay is not so. took me 2 days to beat the mages collage quests... took me 3 for dark brotherhood. But i also was only playing 2-3 hours.

As for skill trees that is the perk system not skill system. and Ya I agree they should add means to reset ur perks. I had to re roll a few times due to accidental point setting. from what I know you get 99 perk points. and at low level i had a few maxed out. (sneak and blade beign the mains) thats why i stated it was unbalanced a bit cuz at 13 you only have12 perks. and with 2 skills at maxed (if not more) you en up not having enough perk points to add. and after a while of maxing out skills leveling does drop. since lower skills ad little and exp needed per level does increase. or appears so i had drop off points at around 30 -47 getting 12+ skill ups and not seeing a level.

anyway this is just my opinion.
and what I feel will help imporve the quality of game play.

games can be TOO accessable... and rather not see TES fall down the same well. where it looks pretty but the story/ game play suffers ot it don't feel like an RPG but just another main stream mess like fable.

But from a AAA publisher's point of view, there's no such thing as "TOO" accessible.

And at this point, given the number of copies Skyrim has sold and the GOTY awards, etc., there's really no reason that Beth would see any part of their direction, which many on this forum have described as "dumbing down" (the game) as being problematic in any way.

I think most of the people in this thread, at least those who know what they're talking about, understand what you're saying and more or less agree with your basic point.

Many of us who've played these types of games since the 80's, 90's will find the whole "well, you've completed six go there/fetch this quests for us so, I guess you're qualified to be guild master" deal completely absurd because there's absolutely no feeling that you've done anything to earn the position or anything that any other member couldn't have done or anything that demonstrates some quality that might justify your being put ahead of the guild members who've been around for thirty or so years.

And that's the part that svcks for people like us. You just want to feel that you've earned the position ... or at least are qualified by some measure to occupy it.

And you definitely don't get that in Skyrim ... or at least, I didn't.

But we don't form the majority of the "market" for the game.

And the majority, of console players, are "perceived" as, whether correctly or not, kids who just want to do be able to do everything in the game and obtain every so-called "achievement" as quickly and easily as possible.

I came across a "forum" a couple of weeks back full of teenage XBox players who were lining up to give their game save to a forum mod who would then upload to a PC to, for example, pump up their smithing, enchanting, etc. levels to 100 then give them them back the save to upload back up to their XBox.

Skyrim is easily exploitable to get levels up real fast in some skills ... and these little feebs were too lazy to even do that.

And I honestly just can't grasp this type of mentality. I mean, where's the fun in the game if you cheat everything?

It's funny ... yesterday I was thinking back to the days when I played FF1, Ultima, Zelda, etc. on my little 8 bit NES.

And I remember thinking at the time, gee it would be great if the game just looked a little nicer ... and wouldn't it be great if the NPCs could actually talk.

And I remember playing Ultima "whatever" on my PC and starting the game and a big red skull type picture came up and started to talk ... and startled me so much that I just about jumped out of my chair because I never had a game "talk to me" before. It's hard to explain now how "awesome" that was.

And I remember playing the first FF that came out for the playstation and just being blown away by the graphics ... which had advanced considerably since my FF NES days.

And I thought that was so neat ... but then found myself thinking that it sometimes seemed more like watching a movie ... then playing a bit ... then watching a movie, etc.

And looking back, that was the beginning of the end.

And now we have exactly what I dreamed oF playing my little 8 bit NES.

But for some reason, the games aren't as much fun as they were on that little machine.

Just pretty much vacant eye candy.

Maybe a be careful what you wish for type of thing.

Enough reminiscing though.

I think where things started to go really wrong in RPG land was back in the day when most developers made games because they loved making games ... and they made some great ones.

But, they didn't get the "business" side, and fans didn't get that copying their game and giving to friends was not doing the game developers ... who made the game the fans loved ... a whole lot of good.

So, many of the companies went broke or got bought by the EAs of the world ... who did understand the business side ... and here we are today.

And now we have the extreme at the other end of the spectrum other side of the coin, where corporate created games are just a commodity to be sold to a market with a significant number of consumers whose primary desire from a game is to cheat it and get their "achievements" to parade in front of their bros ... and game makers can market their "digital" cows to saps working digital farms, etc.

So, there's no such thing as "TOO" accessible these days and ain't likely to get better too soon ... much as some of us might wish otherwise.

I could deal with them, but the combat was laughable.

Ravenia, you seem to believe that RPGs are defined by Morrowind. This simply isn't true. I think you need to accept that RPG are changing, stepping into the 21st century.

They're ditching old-school mechanics (such as 'only 99 destruction? Clearly you're far too incapable to gain another rank') for more realistic gameplay (such as 'you have saved us all! Here's the leadership of the guild!').

Did Skyrim pull this off perfectly? No. With a few extra quests though, it could have. Still, I quite like Skyrim's quests. Although I suspect it's people like me - who haven't been with the series since Morrowind - that are 'ruining the RPG genre'. How does it go? 'it's popular, so now it svcks'.

/endrant

And if I said this, after insulting people after not reading or understanding their posts, and accusing people of wanting things easy, when it was patently obvious that was not the case, I wouldn't be looking for debate either.

The golden rule : Choices and consequences. That is what makes an rpg. Perk re-specs make a mockery of that, it is entirely the kind of thinking that panders to those who want everything easy.

I agree with everything OP has stated. Morrowind was my favorite TES game ever. I lived on morrowind. I can not recall how many times me and my ex got in an argument because I just wanted to sit there and play the game. Oh the memories..... went through 3 game discs back then because of those arguments and her breaking them.


PP.S. I hope they put it on xbl and psn soon.