Anything that makes you put a little thought into your crafting is a good thing, besides this is how is should have been in the first place and is a far superior system imo.

if thats the case im glad i can turn iron into gold

I think you're right. Grinding smithing (if that's one's goal) will now take a *little* more work. My guess is that the new MO will be something like this:

1) Perk Dwarven
2) Mule-out dwemer plates/scraps from ruins as needed
3) Two of those plates/scraps + 3 iron ingots = 3 dwarven bows = 810 gp/value
(vs. those 3 iron ingots = 3 iron daggers = 30 gp/value)

*If* one has gems to go with it, transmuting iron ore to gold ore (vs. iron ingots above) for crafting jewelry would provide more experience for smithing. However, since gems don' t really gain any value from being in jewelry (other than the worth of the native ring or necklace), one would actually make a greater profit making bows ... of course, this all a wild guess since I don't fancy myself a nostradamus nor plan on grinding it much myself**.

** But I'll never say never: someday I may want to RP a smith, or maybe a daedric prince's prince -- and need to get daedric stuff before my RP even starts -- or an ebony goddess, dwarven centurion, glass cannon, or ....

Frankly, it pisses me off that THIS is the crap they spend their time "fixing," while console players have to use a fricking Daedric artifact to make your followers useful past level 25.

I have absolutely no idea what these people are thinking. I don't generally bash Beth; this is the best game I've ever played. I just don't understand why this crap gets messed with while there are still broken quests and glitches galore.

Okay, my character is level 31, and his smithing skill is 30. I have never used a potion/enchantment loop to super fortify my skill, and the best gear I have is Superior. Is it my Glass Bow, Ebony Sword or Ebony Mail? No, cause I dont have the skill. Its stuff like Steel Plate and Valdr's Lucky Dagger. You cant use exploits to craft weapons that do hundreds of damage, and then complain that the game is too easy

No, using a petty soul or a grand soul will now level your XP the same amount.

They DID however fix the bug where price decreases when you take "Enchanter" perks. The price now is determined by the size of the soul used. eg: Having +20% or +60% enchanter does not affect the price of the item at all.

All of this makes enchanting alot better now, because you can use it at an intermediate level... where as before it was always better not to put perks into "enchanter" until you hit level 100.

What do you mean Nitron is it your Glass bow or Ebony Mail?

eh its ok I never really abuse grinded smithing anyway imposing my own form of limitations now I don't have to so that is good though I am sure there are some people who liked the old way as to make smithing an after thought.

I welcome the removal of the smithing exploit to make leveling it on par with alchemy and enchanting. Though it is still relatively easier than alchemy.

Though there is still one problem, enhancements. I find that they may be too powerful compared to weapons that enemies use.

And, I'm very sure you still cannot enhance your special rewards from daedric lords to the best enhancement. I wish someone had put in a request. It's unfair that your own daedric weapon can be enhanced to the very best, but legendary items from daedric lords can only be enhanced to flawless.

Enchanting is a lot harder to level for the simple reason that soul gems are both more rare and more expensive than iron and leather.




I'm really tired of this argument. Crafting and using non-combat skills to gain wealth are standard practices in roleplaying games, whether the skills are smithing, fishing, tailoring, etc. If you are roleplaying a heavy armor-wearing orc, mining ore and making it into heavy armor isn't an "exploit." It's playing your character. The same as a light armor wearing hunter, for example.

Smithing really did need to be toned down, and people who want to use smithing without becoming a demigod aren't irrational or using an exploit. Yes, you can avoid becoming a demigod by simply not using the skill. But if the balanced way of using an element of the game is to simply not use that element of the game, then clearly that element of the game is not working correctly.

Is it so now? Because quite some time ago, I did improve Molag Bal mace to legendary, and then discovered that after hitting level 70, all my legendary stuff became improvable again (apparently, that happens every 10 character levels).

On topic, it's good news. That's how I leveled my smithing anyway, as I didn't know about iron dagger trick, and figured, I need to create and improve higher and higher grade items as my smithing went up.

Question: does only the item material base value count or total value, in other words, does improving enchanted (banish, anyone?) items level smithing more quickly now?

So... you might want to level up smithing to 100... but you dont want to make or use glass, Deadric, or Dragone Plate/Scale... your gonna need to make 1 billion Steel Daggers then huh?

I believe, improving glass etc works as well, and you don't need perks for that.

It sounds good. I'd prefer if you needed plans or recipes as well.

I didn't reach level 70 so I wouldn't know. I was level 40+ and when I could only sharpen my daedric weapon to flawless, I assumed that it was a design flaw because legendary items from daedric lords do not fall under any of the item materials (iron, ebony, daedric, etc). That's why they could only reach flawless, like as if you didn't have any smithing perks.

Daedric only goes to flawless?

You probably need Daedric perk in order to improve a Daedric artifact to Legendary. And 1 ebony ingot per improve. Mehrune's Razor also can be improved, and I'm guessing, any other artifact weapon that isn't a staff. Apparel artifacts can't be improved at all, at least, I didn't see such an option on the workbench, but I may be wrong.

Whoah, Whoah, slow down there pal!
you can improve past Legendary??!
I stopped playing this long ago, but was gonna do another run, what comes after Legendary?

No, but you can improve the damage further and further the higher your skill goes. My guess is that's what he meant.

I welcome the change btw: My current character together with Complete Crafting Overhaul didn't get to 100 smithing until Level 53 because I only used what I could hunt and mine myself, but this now gives me incentive to use gems and make higher quality jewelry as well as armors and not only bracers/gauntlets/boots.

It also adds a bit more realism to the game. While it is important to keep your basics it just didn't make sense that a low level item every moron can smith improved your skill as much as higher tier items.

You can improve Legendary items multiple times. Try to experiment and see for yourself. Get any perk (say, Dwemer), improve an item to Legendary. Then chug a smithing potion and see that you can improve it again. Then wear some enchanted smithing gear and see that you can improve that legendary item again. Then, if you're level, say, 55, get to level 60, wear the enchanted smithing gear, chug a potion and discover that you can improve your legendary item once again. Now I'm not telling you to overpower yourself, I'm just telling you to explore game mechanics before you tell me to whoah whoah whoah slow down

Yeah I got the daedric perk. I can improve my normal daedric weapons to legendary. But I can only improve a certain legendary daedra lord sword to flawless.

Maybe a mod you have allowed you to improve daedric lord artifacts to legendary.

My complaint is not with the smithing skill itself. I was refering to the people who massively fortify their smithing skill to overpower their weapons/armor, than say that the game is too easy. If they didnt imrove their gear to such a degree, the game might retain some degree of difficulty for them. If I improve something with my skill level, with some +smithing gear, it adds on like 10-12 points of armor or damage, and I see nothing wrong with that.

Nope, I've never used any mods. So either it's a bug, or not all Daedric artifact weapons can be improved to the max/at all. I haven't collected all Daedric artifacts, so I can't tell for sure.