lol i can immagine the failure that would be

"i'm gonna pirate the better textures mod for skyrim"

See, you would still get some, though. Otherwise iTunes would never exist, or the games industry - especially PC. Certainly, people can always get things through other means - it doesn't mean people don't buy games through steam, or songs through iTunes, etc.

"I tried to get a bit more clarification on this point as it still leaves a little room for interpretation (I want my clarifications ironclad!):

QUOTE
Thanks Matt,

I'm sorry, I don't want to be a pain (I really try to not bother you folks at Bethesda at all)! Can you just confirm that mod authors will not be able to upload mods and earn money through the Steam Workshop? E.g. everything except Bethesda's DLC will be available for free download?

I just want to make extra sure before I go clear everyone's fears on this one!


Matt has not provided further clarification on that point.

I hate to be sceptical about Bethesda when they've done so much for this community, but this still leaves me sceptical. "

You kind of forgot the rest of it, but I can kind of see why since it was detrimental to your point.

Both the mindless fear and entitlement complex in this thread are really, really funny.

The sky is not falling. You do not need to deliver ultimatums about how you will omg boycott Bethesda forever. Calm down, and act like sane, rational human beings.

It's pretty funny, if you think about it. "If Bethesda allow people to make mods, fixes, etc, like they always have, but allow these hardworking folk to request payment for their work, I WILL BOYCOTT ARGH FREE UPGRADES ARE MY RIGHT!!!!"

Other games using Steam to host fan-made mods (eg Civ 5) aren't charging for them.
Obviously Bethesda and Steam aren't doing this just out of charity but a healthy modding community is what makes TES games still sell years after they came out which both Bethesda and Steam will benefit from
No need to see conspiracies everywhere

What I think funniest is those who believe, in a worst case scenario omg charging for player mods situation, that the modders who actually put the hard work in would see any of the money at all. Yeah, the probably would at first in a show of good faith....but the reality of it is short of custom models, legally speaking, neither company would owe the modder squat. You used their tools with their resources while agreeing that in so doing you're mods are derivative works under their intellectual properties.

So really Reneers, what'd be worse? No one making any money off the mods you make(which aren't bad, i'd be lying if i didn't say that a couple were on my hard drive right now)...or Only the parent companies Making money off of it while you still aren't seeing a dime? On the bright side though, I do believe they are still legally bound to give a nod to the person responsible for derivative works.

Eh, there is always a lot of doom and gloom for some people. Until they start charging I'm not lighting any torches or grabbing any pitchforks.

Personally I think a dedicated thing for mods like this is good. Sounds like a good place to find what you're looking for with feedback and all.

That said - eh, I wouldn't be to concerned if some did charge for it. If some guy is willing to pour time and effort into creating an awesome mod and then wants a couple of dollars, well, good for him/her - in the past I've been happy to donate to support creative efforts.

If they did charge you don't have to buy it - the choice exists for people not to pay and not to play if they don't want to, but I can just imagine the cries of "can you believe this, some person made something and doesn't want to let me have it for free! What a jerk! If I knew how to make mods and had the time to do it I wouldn't charge." Ultimately its not like Bethesda is going to come round and force you to empty you paypal account paying for mods.

Right... if they didn't provide any of the income to the modders they would be burying their Steam Workshop on day one. The modders would let the community know why you can only find their mods on Nexus or whatever, and people would shun the Workshop directly. Even if they paid them originally but stopped paying them later on, the word would still get out and people would stop using the Workshop.

I'd buy a gaming pc for this mod, if its true http://www.skyrimmp.com/

*nods* like i said, in a worst case scenario situation. Personally, I just don't see much in the way of Skyrim specifically going for payment for player made mod economy. It's a single-player game. The games that have a player made mod economy are almost exclusively all online, multiplayer games.

I just hate seeing that green-eyed monster starting to rear it's ugly head amongst the modding community. Especially since we've had one well known modder already exhibiting the "you don't think I deserve compensation for the work I do?" mentality. Legally, no, you don't deserve anything. DESERVE is an ugly, ugly word.

I don't know about anyone else, but I will never buy a mod.

I will only use the Nexus anyway. So I'm not too worried.

Edit!: though if they could charge, modders may choose to only upload on steam workshop.

it's a bit funny how rumors seem to spread. Everyone is so negative about bethesda as a company. Whenever they release a patch that doesn't work they get all upset if they can't play the game for a few hours. The creation kit is apparently taking too long to be released? However they'll release it in january which is in my opinion perfectly normal? Now they create this workshop thing which and everybody seem to get all upset and start speculating about how beth is going to make money out of this in the long run? Beth is just another company like all those out there, run by human beings not computers. It's a "normal human" mistake if they release a patch that doesn't work, ask yourself how many mistakes do you make in normal life? Of course the creation kit is taking a bit longer to release, they were too busy finishing up Skyrim.Which is of course their main priority, they don't make money off the CK so don't blame them for that, Bethesda is not a charity guys. Sometimes I feel like were all just a bit to spoiled customers to recognize that. Were all too used to get things our way as a customer that we fail to see it from a different perspective sometimes.

If you don't like the idea of this workshop idea then just don't upload or download your mods there. Of course there is always a catch with these things but I feel like the only thing that they are gaining out of this is a bit of control over the community. They want you to use steam because obviously steam advertises other games and all that. If beth will release DLC's they will obviously show up in ads all over this workshop triggering you to buy their DLC's probably. I think the workshop isn't going to be any different than to become the "official version of skyrimnexus" just like these boards are the "official version of the nexus forums" that's all.

The only thing that I'm a bit skeptical about now is if the Workshop will be a success. Probably most users will stay truthful to the nexus websites or other communities but we'll see about that.

Yeah, and what if I want food on the table? Gas for my car? And I suppose you don't want money for going to your job, right? Etc.. I have no idea if this is true what the OP is saying, but I do think it seems a good idea - if someone wants money for their work then it's entirely up to them, so stop yapping about it. It's the same about piracy in general - why the heck should everythig be free? You wouldn't demand to read someones diary without permission, would you? Because it's up to them to decide who reads it. If I want only people who payed for my game to play my game, then that's the way it should be. It is amazing and somewhat crazy that all those people are putting all this work into making mods for games today. But I don't think being able to charge for your work would be bad for modding. Maybe for the game developers getting all that content into their game for free. But the mods would probably get better in general.

Oh, and putting copywrited material up on a torrent isn't a "d!ck move"? Give me a break. And I don't get your logic, why should some random modder be expected to put X amount of work hours into fixing a game for free just because the developers didn't fix it? It's not his fault, is it?

I would never pay for an unofficial mod. The reason is that if the modder have made a dirty mod, he/she can't be hold responsible for any broken savegames or gamefiles.

Which is why a good rating system and community communication is a good thing. I've dabbled in mods and I'm pretty crap, but some of the modders out there? They should be professional. No matter how good a job Bethesda does they probably aren't going to be able to deliver everything people might want, or deliver how they want.

Patches should be free of course - that is only commen sense for fixes to a product paid for and should be provided by the game creators (though plenty of good games benefited from fan patches). But legitimately new content? Content that adds to the game and gives us something new we want etc? As I said I don't condemn someone who sunk time and effort into a modding project asking for a little in return.

I would raise my eyebrow (left) at those who say, like they are courageous Stormcloaks fighting for freedom, "we'll get it as a torrent". Yeah, if you want, but modders don't owe us anything, we are enjoying the fruits of their labor. They do it for the love of the game and community? I applaud them. They ask for a dollar in return? If I like the mod sure, why not.


I can understand why he wouldn't give anymore, considering how people have dissected press releases and comments from long before the game was released and hung onto anything Bethesda said would happen or was in the works but wasn't in the finished products (usually followed with a "they lie, those lying liars!").

He said what it was, maybe it will change, maybe it wont. Probably not Bethesda's job to say "we will ensure modders don't sell their creations"


True.

I doubt this is more than the unfounded worry of a few at this point. HL2 mods are free whether hosted or linked to an external site.

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?snr=1_4_4__12&term=


I don't think mods should be paid for.


I do wonder if they could use Steam as a built it one-in-all mod manager.

I doubt seriously that anyone is going to charge for mods. But so what if they do?

Don't want to pay for a mod? Then don't. Seriously. Some people act like video games are so crucial to their lives that charging for anything is extortion. Ugh. It's not like they are charging you a dollar for a gallon of oxygen. It's a freaking game. Don't want to pay for something? Fine. You'll be fine without it, while at the same time sending a message to whoever is charging that one less person is willing to pay. If everyone did that, they'd stop charging.

Hmmm, I don't think that's likely.

However, given the amount of time spent on creating the mods, and the unbelievable cleverness or beauty of some... I could not really argue if somewhere in the future, there'd be charge. Provided all the money goes to the modder. I mean, nobody argue that some of the mods, they're truly above and beyond.

This is all very true. However, that only applies to things directly created using Bethesda's tools, i.e., the CS / CK. Plus, unless I've missed it, we haven't seen the EULA for the CK yet.

Obviously I'd rather that no modder gets money then Bethesda / Steam get money for all our hard work.

Have I used the word "deserve" in this discussion? No? Then kindly don't put words in my mouth or attribute things to me that I haven't said.

And yeah, I wouldn't mind being compensated in some small way for the literally thousands of hours or more that I've put into my mods. Do I deserve it? Just as much as anyone else who does work deserves to be paid for that work.

Am I going to stop modding if I don't get compensation? Of course not. Am I going to put any less effort into my mods if I don't get paid? Perish the thought.

IF a team put together an amazing expansion, I might be willing to pay for it. But I wouldn't pay a lot, and it would have to be excellent. I have no problem with modders actually getting paid for their work. It will be interesting when a modder decides to test the waters by having his mod on Steam only and charging for it. And if I found out that Steam and Bethesda were taking a large chunk of the price, I'd be much less likely to buy. I'd rather support the guy who worked on the mod.

Do you deserve it though? I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here, but modders are pretty much understood to be volunteers from the start. It's hard to justify volunteering for something and then asking to be paid when you finish. Not that I don't support modders, if they were getting paid I would be fine with that. Of course, I probably would never buy a mod, though. That's just me.

But really, it's hard to see why you label making a mod as "hard work" when the reason you do it is because you love to. Nobody asked you to do it, nobody is paying you to do it, so why is that work? That sounds more like a very busy hobby to me.

And yes, most hobbyists have the right to sell the things they make. However, every single asset you use to make a mod is Bethesda's. It's a derivative work. At the very least, you are using their lore concept. There's no way to escape the fact that your work is 100% based on their work.

It's a lot easier to test a TF2 hat for bugs than a large .esp mod. Imagine if OOO would become a paid DLC. Wouldn't Bethesda have to dig into it to ensure there wasn't any malicious code anywhere? Because I assume that if they allow a mod to be sold for money it has to meet certain quality standards. That would probably cost a lot of time.