..and what it may hold for the future of TES.

I am deeply in love with Skyrim. Since day one, it's officially been my favorite RPG of all time, by far, as well as my favorite game, in general. Despite all the streamlining (not dumbing down, guys), they managed to simplify it a bit to welcome newcomers to this awesome franchise, as well as retaining The Elder Scrolls' core mechanics and nature, as a huge open-ended RPG.

It's great, but how much more can they simplify? Skyrim is still very much an RPG (in my eyes, at least), but I really don't think they can streamline TES VI anymore than they have with Skyrim, without compromising it's title and an RPG.

I personally want them to retain the level of depth that Skyrim has, or maybe even bring back some complexity by introducing new skills, or maybe bringing back attributes! Idunno, but what I'm really trying to say is that Beth's history of streamlining TES with every installment has me sort of worried for Tess VI (whenever it may come!).

These are just my opinions, guys, and show me YOUR feedback. Do you think Skyrim is too simple? Too complex? How should they handle streamlining for their next installment?

[correct side of the argument statement here]

Based on the feedback they've been given, they've basically hit the point where they're satisfying all their fans and newcomers. I doubt we'll see anything removed from now on, if anything we'll see what we currently have expanded on even further to make it more complicated but still as fluid as it currently is.

As far as my opinion goes though, other than minor nitpicking I really only dislike how dialogue/questing has changed from Morrowind, with its extensive use of the journal and lack of quest markers. It made it feel like you're discovering everything and finding out what happened all on your own with no hand-holding. Also would of preferred if instead of completely removing attributes they simply removed multipliers, and let you put one point( With it scaling nicely) in whatever three stats you wanted to improve your character like that without worrying about getting x5 multipliers on each of the three you wanted (Luck/Speed could of been removed still though, the latter more-so than the former.)

But the quality of the game has definitely improved since Oblivion with the streamlining, and I don't think it's been detrimental at all to the experience as some people might have you believe.

I think that you are right in that they streamlined it so more newcomers would be interested in it and the series too.
I'm a first time ES player, with Skyrim, but I'm going to be a fan from now on. I love Skyrim it has been a great intro to the series.
I think that was the intention. You always need new players / new blood to join a series or it will die off or no longer be profitable.
I think the next game will stay the same or maybe a little more complex. But I don't see it going more simpler.

My only real complaints are the perks trees and quests. Hate all the passive damage increases. Damage should be given by the weapon skills, nothing more. For my shield, I love having power bash, elemental blocking, running with the shield, and Knock downs while charging. That is a perfect example of solid perks. The block tree is actually quite good and robust.

As for questing, I'd just like to see a bit more variety and more interesting ones. I really liked the Redguard quest in Whiterun, because it had a bit of depth, even though it starts as a kill x quest. They need more like that. I like choices. Plus the radiant AI is a good thing, gives you tons to do, but it needs to be organized better. A simple "work" or "Wanted" board in the middle of town square with available quests would suffice. That way, I don't have to clutter my log with junk quests and the good stories can be tied into npc given quests.

I think the streamlining was a good move, and fits the TES engine well. It's just that the game feels like it lacks depth in other areas. I suppose I get bored with games that have one singular plot/story and am resigned to playing NWN for the rest of my days.

Hopefully we get more RPG elements in the next TEs and not less.

By streamlining the game Bethesda has hit the jack pot here, they have kept most TES fans happy and have also brought in the masses. There is no need to streamline any more than has already been done, Were not thick and while i do love Skyrim, i just fear that in future we might cross the boarder of RPG/Action adventure game.

I'm still not sure about the perk system though, i mean i don't dislike it or like it... i guess i need to play more(94 hours played) before i can finally know for sure if i prefer attributes or this perk system.

Streamlining yes. I like the skills & perks system, it makes sense.

I don't like the navigation though. I don't like locations magically spammed to my map, and compass markers & arrows telling me where I need to go. That's the "streamlining" I can do without. Finding locations is not a barrier to gameplay, it IS gameplay. Some of the TES gameplay has been tossed out.

Let's just hope they keep it like this and don't take another step towards the casuals.

sadly i think that is exactly what they will do with the next TES. its an obvious trend that beth tends to make each new installment prettier with simpler gameplay. i think morrowind is so fondly remembered is because it was "not too hot, not too cold, but just right". it was the point where the scope of the world and the depth of the gameplay were in a good balance.

i have this crazy notion that sequels are supposed to improve upon and refine the gameplay of the original, but only the assassin's creed series is doing that anymore, and activision seems intent on f**king up that series with yearly releases: the progression of the series has gone AC, AC2, AC2.5, AC2.75, so i cant really count on them anymore.

and you must realize, dumbing down is just the cynical way to say streamlined. they are one in the same, because streamlining only helps the people who thought it was too complicated to begin with; obviously someone who got by just fine with the non-streamlined system will see the streamlined one as unnecessary.

I agree completely. I sometimes think about how awesome it would be coming up on some real and unique puzzles that really needed some thinking or lore knowledge (yeah I like puzzles in games) I do know that this will never happen now, but it would be awesome. These "puzzles" in Skyrim are just terribly easy and not even a challenge, and I get that, for those who just want a straight forward game with minimal use of the brain, but still, there is something about solving puzzles or beating extremely hard bosses that just gives you this "YES" feeling, and Skyrim lacks in that department, everything is way too easy.

Also, before anyone flames me, this is my opinion and I know opinions aren't facts.

I'd rather they take a few steps back from this streamlining and have a good look at what the game was when it was more of a niche game. THAT is what us old timers fell in love with, not... this... Also take some gooooood looks at other games and ask what are they doing that actually works.

You have no idea how much I agree with you on perks. I always think "oh I just hit 50, I can unlock those awesome, fun, decapitations!, oh, but if I don't get that 20% damage increase for archery, I wont be able to hit flying dragons......" From there I end up going around in circles. Perks should add spice to the game, not be something that is nessasary to be functional.

I like it and dislike it. More like. I think spell crafting should be back and I also want Greaves and Cuirass to be separate again. I think they should add Hand to Hand as a main skill. That had a lot of potential.

I love the game too, not sure if I love it more than Oblivion just yet, but I'm getting there.

My issue with the perks is that they're unimaginative, most of them were already in Oblivion or Fallout.
Most of the perks fail to be redundant purely because skills are now arbitrary numbers that unlock perks (Why would you make skills into keys??)
In Oblivion your weapon damage was fairly closely related to your weapon skill, in Skyrim it depends on how many perks you have allocated.

You can level onehanded to 100 and still be crap with a sword if you didn't allocate your perks 'correctly'

Whiners... I swear Oblivion's leveling system was utterly painful. Every time I leveled it was like getting stabbed in the nuts with a rusty pitch fork, because somehow I didn't jump enough roof tops or get smacked around long enough to increase my endurance with out a MOD.

The only thing I think Skyrim got wrong was leaving smithing/enchanting/daisypicking in the leveling process. It feels like it could use a higher level cap... or a higher difficulty adding more levels. Otherwise I can't grasp the reasoning of your arguments... Tell me how choosing skills that you don't want to level, so you can level evenly isn't trying to go in to a boxing match with a cast on and a crutch? SURE it's challenging, but it's also dumb and quite broken.

Skyrim still offers a distinct way of leveling that can make a bad character if you don't know what you're planning. It's just a lot less punishing for those of us who don't want to spend every action in the game worrying about how it's going to effect the leveling process.

You never had to do 'efficient levelling' in Oblivion. The game was more fun and actually retained a challenge if you did not do 'efficient levelling'.

Trying to get +5 in three attritbutes every level up was not only not necessary but not very fun. My favorite characters never had 100 in more than a couple stats.

You did if you bothered to play on max difficulty like I do. In any case the leveling system made no sense. You were still always much better off choosing skills that were not going to level you so fast by using them, so you could max everything all together. One way or another the old system punished players who played streamline.. needed or not.

My exact opinion on the matter. I've been playing games for as long as I can remember, and while I enjoy Daggerfall and even moreso Morrowind, Skyrim has not disappointed me even the slightiest bit (All I'd ask for is simply MOAR of everything, for I enjoyed what I got). I was also a bit converned about next TES not taking anything more.

They need to add content to the next game instead of take things away. They need to bring back some of the depth we once had, along with depth comes choice.

What kind of logic is, people who have 0 idea what the TES series is about would become more attracted because it was Streamlined in ways they didn't ask for or much less care about? the only people "streamlining" would effect are those who are familiar with the series, and no one can find a trend of people complaining that the Systems prior needed "streamlining". and in all seriousness Skyrim's stats weren't "streamlined" Streamlined insinuates that you can do everything you could in prior games, but quicker and easier. that isn't the case in skyrim, and I don't call a lack of fighting options "streamlining" either.

Bethesda made a descesion for people who don't know otherwise in ignorance of people who do (doing the complete opposite fans have asked for 5 years). no Fans are not made because nummit Features or aspects of a game they have no idea about have been streamlined.


And In all honestly I thought as you did, that they couldnt streamline any further than Oblivion. I was soundly proven wrong. I don't want the old system from Morrowind or Oblivion back but I do want something better, not a cut version of it that functions the same exact way as Morrowind/Oblivion(there is nothing revolutionary or different about Skyrims Stat system) but gives even LESSS control over your character.

Pretty much this, Oblivion's system was not that good and was better off modded out for something better. Skyrim's system isn't perfect but much better then what we had in the previous games and a step in the right direction.

I may get flamed for this but, in all seriousness, the rpg mechanics in all the recent tes games ( I havent played arena or daggerfall), have been poorly designed, lack any complexity, and are fundamentally flawed. I hope they take a step back and examine the fundaments of their rpg systems, because as of now, they only serve to provide incentive to actually keep playing, rather than having your choices have a meaningful effect the way your game plays out.

Your tears are sweet, but I could care less about your bruised ego. When something is broken you fix it, you don't leave it broken. Do you think Bethesda cares more if it loses one person loyal to a broken concept or two more customers who can follow the logic? I think if they have any desire to make money, you can expect more of the same.

Likewise tell me how putting stats in things you wouldn't in the first place 'more' control? It's actually less... all it does is leave you without the unneeded stat, so they just attached that to the ones you would have picked anyways.

You're the one who's seem to leave logic far behind, because of your familiarity with a broken system.