I've been trying to use the survival skill a bit. Out of all the new stuff survival is the one thing that I'm not so sure was necessary as a new skill, I mean to start with "survival" is so broad, surely it encompasses all your existing skills to define how well you can survive.

Anyway, I'm often using up points to up my survival but the requirements are quite high to make even seemingly simple things (eg.something like 50+ to make a salad ?) On top of this is the added high skill requirements of other stuff like medicine as well to make the higher end stuff. Maybe good to define characters, maybe bad as it's seemingly overly consuming of points to make it worth while ?

What I'm thinking is why not have used the existing medicine, repair, science and general intelligence level to define survival crafting requirements rather than adding the new "survival" skill at all ?

Basic foods imo might of required just a basic intelligence lvl, common sense in knowing how to fry up a steak, make a salad. Healing powder and Hydra type items might rely on your medicine skill lvl and the poisons could rely on science. Repair skills could cover the practical requirements for tanning hides and why not have the option to reinforce armour with some strong geko hide ? (Not sure if you can do this already ?) More elaborate crafting items could require obtaining the knowledge first before they are on the list at all (eg.FO3 schematics.) Why no preserved foods ? Surely that would be a necessity in post-apocalyptica ? Mole rat jerky ? Pickled cactus fruits maybe ? Jar of chili ant meat ?

The other thing that seemed odd was the benefits of food items over healing specific items, I mean I go through steaks like stim packs in combat as they give seemingly enormous strength benefits (I'm getting +2 strength from a steak at around 55 survival skill ! This is on hard core very hard) on top of relatively efficient healing (+4 over 15 or so seconds I think ? Something pretty good like that). I would expect healing powder to fill this roll much more effectively than chowing down on a steak but I go the steak (or even a salad which seemingly trumps a good steak ! Or even mixed nuts !) over the healing powder.

Well I'm only around half way through the game so my opinions are still forming on the survival skill set and the crafting items but I'm wondering what you other wastelanders are thinking of the whole "survival" skill set ?

Survival is useful in hardcoe mode, particularly recipes that provide water. As disgusting as a Bloatfly Slider sounds, my hardcoe char lives off them. But outside of hardcoe mode it's hard to see the point.

Well that's another thing, even playing hardcoe I've somehow always got water from scavenging ! I have used the cactus water but only once and I made enough water to last me several days ! But I figured it was fair enough as if I hadn't had the survival skill I might have finally run out of water. I haven't bothered with the mass purified water, it just seems like a lot of water for little result, then again I'm still around mid game and ~55 survival skill. Also my science and medicine skills are woeful

EDIT: Though to be honest I was paranoid about having no water from the start and think I bought it whenever I saw it even if i had plenty.

It's usefull early game when you can't really hold and find much water/food. Once you get a companion they're basically a human fridge so survival becomes useless.

The only use for survival for me is getting it up to 45 so I can obtain the Animal Friend perk.

You know that salad you're so incredulous about? It heals better than a super stimpack! And once you get 60 points you can make gecko kebabs, which give more food than steak and more hydration than water, and only weigh .25. You won't need to carry any other food or water anymore once you get those two recipes.

But IMO you don't need more than 60 points. It would be nice to make hydra but I haven't found a good source for cave fungus.

Surivival is ok but its not a necessary skill.

Even with hardcoe mode, the entire recipe chain needs to be reorganized, rebalanced, and releveled.

Coyote Steak should not require 50 skill. Nor should Dog Steak require 40 skill. Not when Gecko Steak can be made at skill 25 and is also a low level critter.

(Then there's the whole issue that even in hardcoe mode, I can loot enough food/water to survive easily.)

That's exactly it ! It's absurd that a simple salad trumps a super-stim pack ! Even the picture of your character scoffing down a salad mid combat seems less like a believable survival technique and more like something you learn from watching Popeye !

I'm working my way up to gecko kebabs atm

I like it because a some foods have excellent healing rates depending on how high your survival is. It's a very good alternate to medicine.

Until Obsidian fixes this obviously broken aspect of the game, here is your solution:

http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35715. Especially check out the healthier healing mod in this package.

Removes all HP benefit from food. Why? Because food should be eaten because you're hungry, not because you've got internal bleeding. Food should be eaten preferably in a safe place when you have the time to eat it. It should not heal more health than stimpacks or healing powder.

Check out the other effects of this mod, too: makes doctor's bags, hydra and blood packs actually really valuable now, and makes sleep an important part of the healing process.

Call it making the game more like real life - I call it making the game deeper and thus more satisfying.

Oh, and with the abundance of food that can be bought, I can't see why anyone would take the survival skill. I recommend using the console to transfer points invested in Survival elsewhere.

Thanks for the link, might try it for my next play through, sounds like a sweet challenge. I like the sound of the prolonged healing benefits with doctors bags and the movable cardboard bedding

Keeping track of what materials you have / need for crafting is more trouble than it's worth.
I can live without the chems you can cook up. Other than that, not a whole lot that's unique.

I think the only item I crafted consistently was the Weapon Repair Kit... but that's not Survival.

Scrap Metal, Wrench, Scrap Electronics, Duct Tape, Wonderglue

All 1lb each. And you need like 3 Metals. Carrying that stuff to make Weapon Repair Kits was enough of a burden

Survival is a USEFUL skill, especially in hardcoe mode. It's not a NECESSARY skill - you will do just fine by not investing any points into it. That's actually pretty good design if you ask me.

I agree w/ the majority of your points.

In general, survival feels like a lack luster skill. its benefit overlap with other skills. IMO, when compared to Science, it is kind of a joke. Science can do most of what survival does, allows you to hack, recycle cells, and has many skill checks. A bit unbalanced.

Poison making, the only skill I find truly unique to survival, is more trouble than it is worth. 3 doses of poison from all those material? Geez. At least they could of scaled how much you could produce based on survival skill.

I had such high hopes.

Yeah the only unique thing that the survival skill provides are the poisons.

There is no need to make food because you can just buy them from vendors. But what could be done is make food made by your survival skill more powerful.
Maybe you can make rare foods that would give significant buffs, like a +2 to strength, +2 to endurance, maybe even +2 to luck, etc.

Of course no food you eat can make you more intelligent, more agile, etc. So the buffs have to be reasonable.

I only raise it to get Rad Child and honestly I don't even need that. I just like the game filling my HP for me after a fight instead of me reaching all the way up and pressing my 1 key. I agree with most people in that you can find almost everything survival does x100 by looting. I don't think I have ever run out of food or water and sleep is no problem. I really like the idea of survival but it could use a lot of work. The main things I would want to make all require the science skill.

I think the important thing we're all forgetting here is this:


After something like a DECADE... they -finally- got the skill implemented in a functional way! So it's a bit broken. Yeah! Hell yeah it is! But it's there... in all it's broken glory... functioning precisely as it was intended.

And that means it can be -fixed-... instead of being just -dreamed- about.

That means a mod doesn't have to add COOKING from scratch. It means all you have to do... is go change around the listings.

When you think about it... that says volumes.


Survival, as it is... not so necessary. You can easily survive without it. But it's there. And it -does- function. Which means if you want to make it better... and you're not an icky, icky console user (I kid! I kid!)... then you can make it better!

And then Obsidian can take your work, and make it part of a patch because it's epic. Or something.

And -then- the console players could enjoy the much better Survival skill. (Assuming they're human enough to enjoy anything.) ... >.> <.< ... (Alright... so I'm kidding again. T_T )

I don't know, +3 Str from alcohol sounds pretty good to me. Healing without the side effect of addiction? that's pretty good as well.

It is only a shame that they remove Rad removal recipe that doesn't involve Radaway; I mean there should be something that Radaway is made from and you should be able to get a herbal equivalent, right?

I'm playing hardcoe, currently at level 19. Survival was a tagged skill for me, and I'm yet to use it once. There's bottles of water/sinks and loads of brahmin steaks everywhere, so there's no point.

I don't like that the survival skill allows you to heal from food and water because that defeats the purpose of hardcoe Mode. If it wasn't a requirement for my favorite perks I wouldn't have invested a single point in it. I'm quite annoyed that Animal Friend, Travel Light and Entomologist all require it. Although I suppose it makes perfect sense for Animal Friend. But I think Science is a better skill for Entomologist and an Endurance requirement would be better suited for Travel Light.

I don't mind that it's required for making food because I've never made any, quite franky. I find plenty of food and water so I've never needed to make any of the "dishes" that have Survival as a requirement. I think if they are going to have a survival skill that kind of thing is a fair enough use for it. I also thought it might be a requirement of harvesting desert plants, like cacti and things like that. That would be a more logical use for it. I do agree that skill requirements for all sorts of crafting are too high.

I really would like it if they either removed the requirement for perks, or made it so food and water didn't heal you. Preferably the latter.

Don't suppose they will though. Future playthroughs I will be ignoring Survival.

theres really no point for the survival skill unless your playing on hardcoe mode.

Even in hardcoe mode it is not that important, it definately makes your life a lot easier, but hardcoe mode is a lot easier than it was hyped up to be.

None of the other skills are necessary. Why should it matter if Survival was necessary or not? I'm pretty sure Survival is supposed to be an optional replacement for Medicine. Its like how Guns and EW are similar to each other, and Unarmed and Melee are similar to each other.

Survival has been handy for my melee character.... the perks that increase damage and damage resistance sure help and the food takes the place of stimpacks so I can pump my companions full of drugs. The poisons are quite helpful for tougher enemies at higher levels... but getting the cazadore glands is kinda irritating.