TES needs to end

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:02 am

I dont think I would want it to end.

I can ignore those fetch quests, fus ro dah the lazy idiot, and then go to a cabin in the vast game world and swim there for a vacation.

The world is a huge place to explore. After killing alduin and stuff, the dragon born should feel like exploring dungeons and everything else Skyrim has to offer is a piece of cake, not a "you can't play anymore since you killed the dragon master."

Anyways, I agree nv ending was good. I find people who complained about no being able to play after it ended stupid, but you know how it is.
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Hussnein Amin
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:35 am

Why? What couldn't you do than you can now besides continue after one defining moment? Why eould it end TES?

It really interests me how the very notion provokes such a strong reaction. I don't get why people think post MQ play is so fundamentally crucial.

I appreciate arguments that it wouldn't automatically solve problems with lacklustre quest design or any other such issues. But I really struggle to uinderstand why people thing the idea of a player controlled ending point would be so awful when it has the advantage of facilitating more meaningful choice and less lame endings that ultimately don't matter.


well, personally, I like my characters to last years of game time and develop quite a bit, Certain mods facilitate long term roleplay on the PC also. ( Companion Vilja for Oblivion for example) I really take the "live another life " to heart. If it had a definate ending it would become a relatively tiny thing and not the gamestyle I love. There is something incredibly cool about feeling you are exploring an ongoing world with a history and future and I want to end my tale when I want to not have its ending dictated.


Choices and consquences that were greater would be nice but I believe that could be implimented to amore acceptable degree without sacrificing the nearly infinate open sandbox.
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dell
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:01 am

The problem with TES is the studio's current direction and the writing staff. Todd's a good project director, one of the better ones in the industry but I feel he pushes the games too much towards the action end and not enough on the RPG end. The games are still governed by the RPG elements but not as much as they should, Skyrim is a perfect example, it's a great game but a terrible RPG and Skyrim is hurt longterm by that, not to mention that the studio itself is terrible with balancing.

The Writing is also bad and to be honest it's a joke at times. Fallout New Vegas is also an Open World RPG, yet it has great writing, I wonder how that happened. Skyrim's writing is spoty and sometimes outright terrible, you'd think that Esbern would've been some epic character but he's hardly comparable, hell I have more rememberence towards Martin then I do for Esbern.

The direction that TES and possibly Fallout is heading isn't good at all, the games need more RPG, not less although that doesn't mean we bring back problem issues. If Attributes were a problem in Oblivion and they were at times then bring them back and fix them, don't just simplify it to 3 attributes that are hardly going to matter longterm.
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Sophie Morrell
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:42 pm


How about the Player refuses to be the hero... Or even isn`t the hero in the scheme of things? Have the game revolve around more imvolving local, imaginative stuff.


I've been saying this for months now, too. I have yet to play a character who's a Dragonborn, actually, I have yet to use any of the shouts. I like taking the role of an ordinary citizen-turned-mercenary instead. Or a scout. Or a peasant.
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jennie xhx
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:18 pm

You could always stop playng and end it for yourself.
This.
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Jaki Birch
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:29 am

well, personally, I like my characters to last years of game time and develop quite a bit, Certain mods facilitate long term roleplay on the PC also. ( Companion Vilja for Oblivion for example) I really take the "live another life " to heart. If it had a definate ending it would become a relatively tiny thing and not the gamestyle I love. There is something incredibly cool about feeling you are exploring an ongoing world with a history and future and I want to end my tale when I want to not have its ending dictated.


Choices and consquences that were greater would be nice but I believe that could be implimented to amore acceptable degree without sacrificing the nearly infinate open sandbox.

But the point is you still have your infinite sandbox. Nobody dictates to you when it ends except you. But those of us that like real decisions with proper consequences get that too.

I just don't get it. Like I didn't get it with New Vegas - people going wild because it had an ending when if and when it ended was totally in their control. It never has to end if you don't want it to - but it will when and if you want it to - and tell you the consequences of what you chose to do - what is the big problem with that?

The world isn't at all "ongoing" - it's totally static. Everything is just sat there waiting for you to agree to go to dungeon x and fetch object y. It doesn't change and never will. That's the problem - your story doesn't have an ending because nothing you do matters.
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Alexis Acevedo
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:30 am

Wow... you are pretty funny, but what's the point of this thread really? is it to tell jokes or something? Skyrim is one of the best and well known RPG's and since Morrowind it's been growing in popularity... i'm doubting Bethesda would end it.
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celebrity
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:03 am

Absolutely not, TC. Tis blasphemy.
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rae.x
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:38 am

Well done all.Outstanding thoughts from both sides.

I am against multiple endings in TES because to me the series is,to me, one big narrative.I started with Morrowind and every action I have taken has happened in my game.
If you put multiple endings then I know at some point only 1 of X number of outcomes will count.Fair point this lends itself to better storytelling for that game but bethesda has gone to great lengths(Dragon break anyone)to to make TES as much your story as theirs.

I agree wholeheartedly that some factions should be shaped by player agency.I also agree that some random quests could use multiple paths.
They have started to move in that direction with at least the DB.
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Isabell Hoffmann
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:33 pm

No. I understand what you mean about a single game to end, but you mentioned different endings. If it were to have these different endings they would have to not impact the story what so ever because if it did then creating a sequel to the game would be just impossible.
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Ymani Hood
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:32 am

No. I understand what you mean about a single game to end, but you mentioned different endings. If it were to have these different endings they would have to not impact the story what so ever because if it did then creating a sequel to the game would be just impossible.

That's Fallout 4 cancelled then. And here was me thinking they'd be working on that already.

The whole hook of TES is 'do what you want to do, be who you want to be' - nobody cares if you decide not to be dragonborn and spend your time hunting deer around Whiterun. That's not going to change the next TES. But this freedom is illusory because the game stops you doing lots of things precisely because they have to make it so the story doesn't really end (and thus is basically meaningless) because people inexplicably hate the very notion of a story having a conclusion - even if they decide when it happens and what it is - having a choice of what it is as opposed to being told what it is.
The whole point of nultiple endings is the devs pick which ending is canon, but players have much more freedom to mould the game as they want. Like in Fallout 3 - you can't really side with the Enclave - even if you do what Eden wants they'll always be hostile - because the game railroads you into helping the BOS because that's what they decided you have to do to progress the game. In Skyrim, you can roleplay a Thalmor agent, but you can't be a Thalmor agent. If Bethesda had made New Vegas, Ceasar's Legion would have been the bad guys you're forced to fight and cannot join. You'd have had to help the NCR and that's that. And they'd have done this just because people imagine having an eventual end somehow means they can't play indefinitely while they very clearly can. And this is classified as the game being about free choice. It's just mystifying to me.
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Emmi Coolahan
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:07 pm

No. TES is an amazing series, and if they do continue it how they are doing it now (one country/state/proence/whatever its called per game) then it will be here for a VERY long time which is amazing. I personally love Bethesda :)
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Adrian Powers
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:11 pm

No.
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Shaylee Shaw
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:00 am

No. TES is an amazing series, and if they do continue it how they are doing it now (one country/state/proence/whatever its called per game) then it will be here for a VERY long time which is amazing. I personally love Bethesda :smile:

Why do people keep seeming to think the thread is about if the series should come to an end?
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Red Bevinz
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:05 pm

And I'm not rtalking about ending the series - which some people seem to think -I'm talking about TES games having definitive endings with multiple choices as to what that ending is like NV did oin order to facilitate your actions having real consequences you can see, if only because the game tells you what they are at the end.

I never actually finished NV because the fact that it would end my game served as disincentive. Besides, I don't consider a slideshow to be 'consequences I can see'. The fact that I'm no longer playing my character means I can never, ever experience the consequences of the story's conclusion.

The best stories will be centered around protecting and restoring the status quo from undesirable change so that the 'consequences' of the protagonists deeds will be the fact that the world wasn't destroyed or changed and when you continue playing past the main quest you will be experiencing the world you saved from radical reformation. Consequences doesn't have to mean change if the goal is the successful defense of what is already there.

Nothing stops you from ending your game at the conclusion of the main quest, so why should something stop me from continuing mine if that's my prerogative?

I wouldn't buy an Elder Scrolls title with a definitive ending like New Vegas had.
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Tyrone Haywood
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:14 pm

A lot of good info and thinking there, but for TES having an ending like NV... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc I would prefer it the other way.
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FoReVeR_Me_N
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:13 am

If it had a point where the player chooses to enter the ending point, that in no way precludes "endless fun with you the gamer deciding on when to stop the characte" - it just means more scope for the writing to incorporate bigger choices. New Vegas allowed "endless fun with you the gamer deciding on when to stop the character" - so did pre BS fallout 3 - it also had a set of possible endings you accessed when you so chose. If you never wanted to end your character, you weren't forced to - you just had to avoid a single end battle. The whole issue has nothing to do with when you start and stop your character as such because you can do that either way.

That's what's interesting about this issue - most people hate the idea, but there doesn't seem to be a clear reason why it's such an awful notion.

Why should I have to avoid anything that would end the game without me wanting to? I haven't played other RPG's, I exclusively play TES because of the variety. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that TES is the only RPG that allows you to continue with finishing the main quest. That makes it unique.

You say there is no reason as to why it's an awful notion. I see no reason as to why it needs to be added. Adding an eding to the game does nothing to make the game any better, it only makes it worse.
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Scared humanity
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:25 am

And I'm not rtalking about ending the series - which some people seem to think -I'm talking about TES games having definitive endings with multiple choices as to what that ending is like NV did oin order to facilitate your actions having real consequences you can see, if only because the game tells you what they are at the end.

I have yet to finish the main quest in Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim, so doesn't matter that much to me one way or the other, but yeah, it would outrage a lot of folks cause the idea that at some point your game "ends" goes against the grain of the series.
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electro_fantics
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:43 pm

This is a very good post, if only people would read it completely...
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Ells
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:01 pm

Why should I have to avoid anything that would end the game without me wanting to? I haven't played other RPG's, I exclusively play TES because of the variety. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that TES is the only RPG that allows you to continue with finishing the main quest. That makes it unique.

You say there is no reason as to why it's an awful notion. I see no reason as to why it needs to be added. Adding an eding to the game does nothing to make the game any better, it only makes it worse.

The reason is because it's phenomenally difficult to incorporate a multitiude of big changes in the gameworld = the game is designed with very limited player choice (like you can wander round forever doing this and that, but you don't make big decisions and nothing you do ever changes anything - or at best marginally - like you win the civil war but nobody seems to care or even realise - to do that justice would require a huge amount of extra dialogue for each side winning). Like you save the world in this game - and what changes? Nothing. You just fight endless hordes of dragons like you did before).
People complain a lot TES is shallow - my argument is this is a big reason it's so shallow. If you compare the story design of New Vegas and Skyrim you can see how one lets you make loads of choices and you find out at the end what happened - stuff they could never show you in game, like what happens to Veronica or what happens to Goodsprings and so on - whereas Skrim lets you wander round forever (as NV does if you want to), but really the game is on rails - you just have the choice of when you get on that singular track to find out it didn't change anything anyway. TES is doomed to severely restrict player choice and offer limited if any consequences to your actions because it's simply not realistic to show multiple outcomes in game and people get inexplicably upset at the notion the story ends if and when they choose and then you find out what the effect of your decisions was - it seems people prefer for nothing they do to mean anything because it's apparently too distressing to save one small slice of content until they want to finish a character.
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Miranda Taylor
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:44 am

No. Hell, NO.
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Dewayne Quattlebaum
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:52 pm

There's other games for that. If you're praising FO:NV and other games so much than go play them. It's simply not the way of TES. That's like me going on the Battlefield forums and trying to convince DICE to make it a 3rd person shooter. No. Consequences aren't the focus of the game. And I don't see why they should be. However, what TES could improve on is making more complex quests with multiple endings, more emphasis on Races but not to the point where they are completely different classes.
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[ becca ]
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:41 pm

And by the way, this thread doesn't belong here. It should be moved to the appropriate discussion.
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Rachel Cafferty
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:03 pm

I'd rather Bethesda got rid of the main quest completely. Of course, if the player always needs to be a huge hero demi-god, then all minor quests will seem irrelevant. The main problem here is: It'd be no problem having multiple endings, in theory, but after all of them, the player is the hero of Skyrim (or bane of Skyrim or whatever), and of course it breaks immersion that people will greet him as such, but then give him FedEx quests (great term^^). Morrowind had that problem: You were the Nerevarine, you had slain a mad god and changed the province! People would love you for it and greet you with "wow, is that really you, the Nereveraine, who saved us all? Thank you so much!" - but then proceed to ask you to fetch them a book or a potion or a couple of Guar skins because they're too lazy to do it themselves.

If the player would make decisions that only have local impact and don't change the entire world, you could have lots of decisions, lots of different outcomes for all sorts of quests, and each playthrough would be very different, each player character unique - but you'd not suddenly feel as if people would not treat you appropriately. You ARE NOT a hero with the power of a hundred men, you are simply an adventurer, so people WON'T be expected to hail you and praise you and become your adoring fans (^^). The world would make perfect sense even though each quest could have a thousand different outcomes. Save the life of the witch or let her burn - it will only impact the life of that person and the ones who wanted her dead. The next village won't know nor mind nor care. Become the arch mage of the mages guild and the guild members will respect you as such, but to the rest of the world, you're still just a silly wizard - among those with higher education you could, as a new dialoge option, pull the "but I'm the mages guild's guild master, I DEMAND AN AUDIENCE!"-card every now and then without massive programming requirements - and from those people who'd care about you being the arch mage, you'd never get simple fetch quests anyway.

I long to see the role playing game where the focus is the personal story of the player character, and not a pre-planned epic written by the developers.

I know I bring it up a lot, but it's just such a great example: Mount & Blade. That game HAS NO STORY. Yet, it constantly comes up with interesting situations and forces you to make decisions and allow for excellent role playing!
A typical quest could be: Follow the marshalls army with your own men. That's it. You follow him. He starts to besiege a town. You wait there with him until he's ready to start the assault. Suddenly, your men complain about a lack of food - not because anyone scripted that, anyone wrote that story; it's plain and simple: Your food inventory is empty. Now you have a new quest that started without anyone ever having thought of it: You need to get something to eat before your men start to desert! But now you have to make a choice and live with the consequences:

You could abandon the siege and move back to your home lands as soon as possible, go to your favorite city and buy loads of food for your men. Yay, problem solved, but you missed the siege and the marshall won't be happy that you left him there to be outnumbered by the foe, and will later let you know that he's not pleased with your behaviour and won't trust you as much if you should ever need his help.

Or you could abandon the siege only for a short while and raid a local village to steal their food supplies. A sensible choice for most, but if I roleplay a 'nice' character, he might not want to burn villages. And even if I don't care; once we have captured the besieged town, the town might be ours, but the villages who keep the town supplied with food will now hate us because we looted their homes. And the town will be in poverty and overall we now have to deal with a looted village whose surviving inhabitants hate us.

Or we could wait and hope that not too many of our men will desert before the actual siege begins. This comes at the risk of losing troop morale and later losing the battle because many of our men decided to leg it.

Or we could disguise ourselves and sneak into the very town we are besieging, trying to smuggle some food out of there. This means we won't miss the siege, nor do we risk the lives of our men - but if we get caught, we might end up in the towns prison!

THAT's choice and consequence and an interesting story, and noone had to write it! THAT's what 'radiant story' should be like! And: I'm not forced into the role of an hero at any point. In fact, I can role-play! If I want to be a heroic knight in shining armour, I'll obviously not loot the village but rather order my men to discipline and attack the town despite the low morale. Or if I'm more of the sneaky guy, I'll try to smuggle the goods out of the town. Or if I'm the tactician to whom lives are only a statistic, I'll go and loot the nearest village to maximize my combat effectiveness. Or hell, perhaps I'm even a pacifist and decline to besiege a town in the first place and rather go elsewhere to trade or learn a few poems and court a lady to increase my influence!

I would much prefer this to a game that has three alternative "endings" for a main quest after which the game just ends.
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Robert Jr
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:14 pm

That would not be Tes anymore...
Sorry :/ I disagree
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Ally Chimienti
 
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