I think that an ending would be akward because no real MAJOR events happened.

Spec, that sounds [censored] awesome

There are plenty of games I played that svcked but I kept on playing simply because of its choice and consequence system. Seriously, it would be enough if they just implemented a fame/infame system. Even if all I could do is watch the numbers rise, better than this. Make the game more emotional!

Neither sandbox nor post story play are incompatible with good story telling. In fact, good writers won't write themselves into a corner that they can't write themselves out of again. If you've reached a point where you are saying, "Geesh, how can we possibly allow the game to continue beyond here?" then you have probably done something wrong.

Personally, I thought Oblivion did it well. You could avoid the main quest all together if you wanted. If you started the quest the invasion started with these Oblivion gates everywhere. After defeating the enemy you saw the fruits of your efforts in ... drum roll please ... the disappearance of the Oblivion gates and the end of the conflict. The world saved, post main quest play could proceed normally in the saved world. Granted, the whole thing probably could have been implemented better but the core structure of the narrative was sound.

I'm having problems seeing it. In fact, what I'm seeing is another "Warp in the West" situation since you have two, mutually exclusive outcomes to the civil war. Perhaps they will resolve this problem in a DLC where it's entirely possible for both sides to lose, even though it currently appears that one side has won. Failing that, the next TES will have to incorporate the fallout from the Empire and the Stormcloaks both winning the war. Alternatively, something extremely massive happens which renders the outcome of the civil war irrelevant to future events.

As for the game-ending part of it, I don't see a problem with continuing after completion of the Main Quest or the civil war. Unlike FONV, you don't necessarily need to remove all but one of the power factions from the gameboard. In FONV, though, if the Legion won, this would require the removal of almost every NPC of any importance who was not Legion-aligned. Or the removal of almost every non-NCR-aligned NPC in the case of NCR winning. Since everything is pretty much locally oriented, who wins in Skyrim is fairly irrelevant to the average NPC. Yes, you hear griping and grumbling from the losing side's supporters, but life continues on pretty much as it did before.

thumbs-up

No I like continuing my character after the main quest ends, I like plotting out ny own characters stories, if I want to play an RPG that has an ending I will go to Final Fantasy or Parasite Eve don't get ne wrong those are some of my favorite games but just because other games are made a certain way does not mean TES should follow.

I wouldn't ever have considered playing Skyrim if it had a definitive ending. I had to find out a way to mod New Vegas Xbox saves to keep playing after the ending before I could even buy that game.

Obviously this is hypothetical discussion as there would never be a chance of this happening, but TES games should never have an ending, it would completely erase what makes the series unlike any other. The stories that Bethesda gives us could be a lot better, but TES games should never be story-focused regardless. It's all about the story you make for yourself.

His point is that if there's a set ending, then the ending also feels that much more fulfilling.

Nobody really rushes to fight Alduin and then thinks "ALRIGHT! I beat him! Now I can get to work on delivering those Frost Salts to Belethor, I can't wait!" It's questionable if it's truly worth it to NOT have a definitive ending just so people can dike around eternally, when they're PERFECTLY capable of saving a game file BEFORE the "final battle" with which to dike around eternally. That way, we can STILL dike around eternally, but the ending actually feels like....well yknow, an actual ending. (and not dragons flying in circles as you stand there thinking "wait wat")

You suggest that he say "ok it's over" and stop playing himself. He's suggesting that instead, YOU make a save file with which to dike around with and THEN Bethesda can provide us with more content for an ending. (and you can still sandbox it up by loading a previous save)

Besides, let's get real: I think the reason people would WANT post-ending gameplay is to see how the world reacts to you, right? To see how the world looks now? Yeah, Skyrim sure did a crackerjack [censored] job of providing us with those details, didn't it....

Which do you want? An ending or more content? An ending means the end of content. And hold off on the last task needed to save the world so I can 'dike around'? Yeah, that works.

We aren't trying to force you to play past the point where you want to stop, so why try to force us to stop just because you don't want to continue? You are the one advocating the imposition of restrictions on us.

And I want post-ending play because I enjoy modding my game and because I look forward to enjoying DLC. If Oblivion had had a hard ending, for example, I would have never gotten to play Verona House Bloodlines ... a fantastic quest mod that takes place after you become the Champion of Cyrodiil. I don't want to have to go back to a previous save and pretend that the ending never happened to be able to enjoy the new content that I continually add to my game.

To think, the ones who suggest silly workarounds like going back to a previous save to 'undo' your ending or holding off on saving the world so you can engage in more trivial pursuits are the ones complaining about meaningful RP choices.

I'd have to nerdrage everywhere if TES ended

TES will never end. It's too much of a cash cow for Bethesda.

It's funny that you can see exactly who read OP's full post and who read only the caption.

Also, no.

it doesn't have to end... you can jump into skyrim without playing oblivion and understand everything. it just has minor reminders of its roots but nothing huge. oblivion did end. you save the imperial city/cyrodil the end, sure you live, but everyone in lord of the rings lives after the ring is destroyed too.

This sounds like a great game. Too bad it's tied to that sorry, sorry implementation. I would have appreciated the chance to enjoy it.

Huh? Sorry implementation? GOTY, Graphics and soundtrack awards, sold umpteen copies, popular for years after release, and you'll miss it why? Well- your decision.

It was a boring, bland game. I managed to make it to the town you're supposed to visit to find the Prince (?), and then just gave up. The endless, mindless conversations. The poor animations. The poor controls. The bland terrain. Etc. Etc.

For what it's worth, Skyrim is definitely better than Oblivion. (No, please, let's not hijack this thread. IJMO.)

Skyrim could have been better, though. Much better... The lack or presence of an ending would do nothing to solve any of its problems.

Reboot TES series and make it highly better and highly greater Bethesda!!!

*reads OP* grawz was like "nah"

TES wouldn't have to be anything like FF and it could still have choice and a definite ending.

I am not opposed to a game end. I may actually prefer it. As far as a series end, that sounds great. Finish it off with a stellar finale and then start something fresh in a new place with new lore. Quite frankly, TES's lore is quite drab. The myths are convoluded and variable, and the history complex and too academic, which detracts from the fantasy feel. That's not necessarily terrible in and of itself - after all, that sounds like real life - what makes it unpalatable is that it feels overdone: a little too variable, a little too complex, thrown together with no overarching themes, like a painting with way too many colors and not enough form. A clean canvas would allow a more well-defined gameworld, like a fantasy novel. A place I really want to learn about.

The point is, the fact people get so precious about TES games having to have post MQ play is what restricts the content. Like that other guy said, people want to see the reaction to you saving the world but you don't and won't - it's too big a job. that's with you being railroaded into one singular outcome because multiple outcomes would be impossible to reflect in the gameworld.

I simply don't understand why exactly people think it's so terrible to defer one final little bit of content so they could have more choice about how they complete quests because then Bethesda wouldn't have to try to make hundreds of NPCs react to multiple outcomes - something its unrealistic to expect they'll ever be able to do. What's so wonderful about completing the main quest - eternally doomed to one railroaded outcome - and being able to find out it changed exactly nothing I really don't get. Oh noes! You'd have to keep a save for the DLC or to go and continue endless fetch quests. How tragic. That's far worse than a game structure that actually makes greater player freedom of choice within the stories on offer possible, right? An ending means more content because it facilitates content it's otherwise impossible to have - if you had an actual choice on how to complete TES main quests people would just moan the non reaction of the gameworld made even less sense than it does now. They can never allow you to cause anything hugely dramatic to happen - or a choice of really dramatic happenings - because the gameworld has to be eternally frozen in time with only marginal changes possible.

Like to my mind, it would have been far more meaningful if you had a bunch of choices regarding how to handle the civil war and learned how that affected different characters, cities and Skyrim's future. Instead we have NPCs not even noticing its over. So what was the point? But of course people have totally unrealistic expectations Bethesda could somehow add massive amounts of content so everyone reacts accordingly.

You're the one advocating the restriction - you're advocating Bethesda be forever prevented from being able to make their stories anything other than rigidly linear with the only choices being stuff like 'kill this guy/don't kill this guy'. And what for? Just so after the main quest the game carries on as normal as if nothing has happened -because in terms of gameplay it hasn't. Like in Skyrim, what's the point of finishing the main quest -really? What happens? You fight more dragons than you did at the start because they spawn all over the place. And you carry on exactly the same as before. That's it. That's the result of you saving the world. What's so great abnout that? This, of course, because the prospect of seeing the ending if you want to then reloading a save from just before it if you still want to potter around endlessly fetching a sword from a dungeon is apparently too much to contemplate.

Yea, but if the game ends who cares what the consequences of our actions were during the game??? We don't get to go back into the world to live with them, so really what is the point???/ Game over your the hero everyone loves you... great woohoo... I wonder what it would be like to live in Whiterun now... oh wait I can't the game is over.

This seems kinda contradicting to me.

Those fantasy worlds usually have in common that not much has happened after their genesis, so that history and myths are managable. Tamriel has seen some thousand years of constant war, so long and complex stories are to be expected. Just look at the history of Europe, and that's without gods messing everything up. Tamriel's history is exactly what I would expect from a continent harboring 10 totally different races.

A world with scholars and academies obviously also has an academic view on history to offer. Don't forget that there is almost no official lore, but everything is written by subjective characters in the world, each with their own agenda. And someone who bothers to write history down is most likely a scholar.

TL;DR: It's complex, it's confusing, it's endless, it's perfect.

I did have a reason for that but I think it might not've gotten noticed:
Basically, setting it up that way forces you to be the hero that went all the way through the main quest, got two steps away from Alduin, and inexplicably said "nah" and went off to do other quests or DLCs or whatnot.