My only problem with this is the loot found in chests is generally good stuff. So it would force me to use lockpicking everytime. I still wouldn't mind it, its just a concern.

I'd call the skill "Manipulation"

Yeah... I agree with this. The combined "utility" of the two would have made the skill a lot more useful.

Then they could have added Acrobatics and Athletics as merged skills that dramatically improve mobility.

The problelm is this the devs were shortsighted and just apparently wilyl nilly placed locked doors everywhere. If lockpicking were implemented this way ( and I agree it should be) then I don't think you could finish like half the quests without lock picking.

yes it does because perks have a much much bigger impact than skill increases. if they did that would you agree that in order to gain any benefit from drinking potions you would have to take perks in alchemy?

The OP's suggestion is mighty splendid! If they do this, which I hope, they need then also add an open lock progression for the alteration tree.

Then again, has anyone really maxed out the Lockpick tree to see if it's worth anything? Extra gems and loot seems pretty good, to me.

I'd be happy with just chucking the mini-game and going back to a dice-roll style, where the perks and your skill level help give a chance of unlocking.

Also bring back unlock spells for mages who don't want to lower themselves to picking locks.

I think a better idea would be more perks like the one to increase gold and treasure found. Leave the mini-game as it is.

I think magical locks should be different and can only be opened by mages. There should also be hard cases that can't be bash open. Also some complex locks which mages can't open.

yeah, the problem is that all it does is make an already easy minigame even easier. trying to mix progression into something based almost purely on player skill is a fool's game: perks could be invaluable or utterly worthless depending on the person, and in the end you can still technically do everything the skill has to offer from level 1. frankly i think the minigame idea is stupid; just have the chance-based force lock thing from oblivion. really, it isnt fun or challenging, and its existence defeats the purpose of having a skill for lockpicking. having requirements for picking higher level locks is good, but thats only 4-5 perks. perks to make the game easier are still worthless.

I agree, lock picking is kind of useless to dump perks into right now. This is something that won't be added though. It will have to be a mod or added in the next TES game.

Lock picking wasn't any better in Oblivion really. You could could pick the expert level locks just by listening to the sounds at level 1.

Locks represent one of the fundamental design philosophies of Bethesda: never lock the player out of anything that really matters. Thus, anyone can pick any lock in the game if they have the patience. And anything you find in a locked container or behind a locked door is nothing special. This is why the perk tree doesn't offer much. Changing it would be like refusing the player admittance to the Thieve's Guild because his lockpick skill is too low, or not allowing a mage to join the Companions. Bethesda just won't do that.

You don't need two requirements for lockpicking ... just make it so that you need a certain 'level' of lockpicking- e.g. 50- to open a certain lock.

Heavy and/if requirements go against the spirit of what TES is about. If we decided to go this path with every perk, for example, smithing would require that you understand how to fight with a weapon (that is, a certain level in one of the weapon perks) and that you are good enough at smithing (that is, a certain level in smithing) before you can improve it. While it would add to the realism of the game, I'm not sure it would add any fun to the game.

What I would like to see: a mod that allows fighter-types to break open chests (whether they are successful or not would rely on their weapon's level- e.g. daedric can open up to 'master' difficulty chests, while iron opens just 'adept' difficulty chests), and a mod that brings back the Unlock spell (which would require that you've reached a specific level in alteration for each difficulty level of the chest e.g. 20 in Alteration for 'adept' difficulty chests).

No thanks. I hated that system in Fallout 3/NV. You should be able to attempt to pick the lock at any time, just like pretty much every RPG from the 90's, including Fallout 1 and 2. It was totally roll based. You could have 1 skill point and have a 99% chance of failure, but there is still that 1% chance that you get lucky and pick the thing.

Super annoying that if you had 99 lockpicking, you were totally unable to even ATTEMPT a Very Hard (100) level lock.

I understand that, but why is lockpicking in the game in the first place if it's so redundant?

^ this. Especially combined with a mod that makes gold much harder to come by.

Which is how it should be... A character without the skills shouldn't be able to progress in a guild. But I do agree that that is the road Bethesda has gone down, Archmage who only knows the spell to gain entry to the college? Why not, can't lock anyone out of content. Blah. But that's a whole other topic.


I still believe it should be the characters lockpicking skill that determines what locks I open (edit: the CHANCE to open locks), not my own personal skill. I am not my character. But if locking other peoples characters out of content due to no lockpicking is a problem, add other means to accomplish it. Open lock spells for the magically inclined and bash locks for the more brutish.

Well, this is why they allow the game to be modded. So you can have it your way, and I can have it mine.

Unless you're on a console and then I just laugh.

I have some trouble with the master-level locks now, so I'd be willing to put a few perks into it to make it easier. Except I'd need to already be at 100 skill to get a perk to affect those, and I think by then I'd have already picked most of the locks and figured out the minigame enough.

I do agree with you (I think?) in that I prefer a dice based system for lock picking. Never played Fallout3 or New Vegas, so not sure how it worked there. I think the lock picking skill should determine the chance, the higher the skill, the higher the chance. But even a low skill has a chance, however improbable.

But yes, I am on PC. So I do have the option of patiently waiting for mods, which is awesome.

I think lockpicking is fine as it is. If you need help with the locks, you can invest in the tree. But, just because a tree is available to spend points in does not mean you need to put points in the tree. I wouldn't mind if you get more gold or treasure with perk points, but otherwise, everything is fine. I pick every single lock I find to level it up, including display cases all over the place. But, this is just me. I'll pick my locks and leave the tree be, nothing in there I need anyways.

No. It only means that it would make investing persk in lockpicking mandatory.

Like keeping some repairhammers in your inventory at all times. That didn't make the game more interesting either, imho.

As it was mentioned earlier, lockpicking and pickpocket should have been combined into one tree with a mix of the best perks from each one. I would also split up treasure hunter into seperate perks such as higher chance to find better/more of armour, weapons, gold, gems.

The fantasy RPG lock has generally been a dumb idea forever.

"I'll just pick the lock on this ches--- *Fighter hacks off the chest lid with an axe*"

Nevermind the dozens of ways magic should theoretically be able to get a lock open, or around one.

Forcing you to take perks in order to pick a lock does not make it more interesting. It is still just as lame as before this time you are just forced to invest into something really lame if you want to open locks. If anything that is worse than the current situation because at least now you aren't forced to put perks into a crap skill.

There is only 1 thing that will make the skill interesting and it has nothing to do with forcing perk buys or the open lock spell or whatever lame reason people think up. The only thing to make it interesting it to make the skill interesting. You can shine a piece a crap all you want but at the end of the day it is still a piece of crap. Fix the core skill add things to it to make it worthwhile and then it will be worthwhile. Adding restrictions just makes it worse.

Things they could have added to it if they were more worried about making a useful skill than they were in fitting everything into the 6 skill per category box.

Disarming traps of all kinds, perks could delay the trap going off on a failed check.
Setting traps/creating traps. Perks to improve damage, increas ethe number of traps you oculd have active or length of time they would remain active, add the ability to put poisons onto your traps.
bypassing one way doors so they would have access to short cuts(like lifting the bar from a door from the wrong side)
merging it with another stupidly narrow skill like pick pocket.