Let's face it - the lockpicking perk tree is not very interesting or compelling. There's basically nothing in the perk tree that demands critical investment. So here is the obvious, straightforward, so-simple-yet-so-right way to improve the lockpicking perk tree: the perks should make it just POSSIBLE to pick the lock - not easier.

A return to Fallout 3's lockpicking basically. For example - If it's an Adept lock, you need to have at least 50 in lockpicking and the "Unlock Adept locks" perk. If you try to unlock a door without having the appropriate perk, you get the message "you lack the skill to pick this lock" - just like in Fallout 3.

Think about it. It makes investing perks in lock picking actually significant and meaningful. It means new areas are available, access to unique treasure/environments/items/people etc behind locked doors, and so on. This was great in Fallout 3/New Vegas... you come upon a door with a Very Hard lock, and you are instantly curious about what wonderful item lays beyond - but you can't get to it yet... Giving you the incentive to improve your character to be able to unlock the mysterious door later.

This should return in Skyrim. Being denied access to areas unless you spend perks in Lock picking... would really make the perk tree feel actually worthwhile.

Lockpiocking should never have been a skill tree IMO. Skill points were different in, say, Fallout. But spending perks on lockpicking? Pfffft. It is simply something we can do without. I would have rathered had Hand to Hand.

ridiculous idea.

How is it ridiculous rikimeru? As of now, you can unlock master locks at a lockpicking skill of 1. Perks are unecessary, unless the minigame is too hard for you.

ALthough one perk I would have liked in lockpicking is more durable locks.

Not really. Who needs doors and chests anyway? I'll just smith/enchant me some awesomeness.

ridiculous response.

Something needs to change, I can agree to that. When I started my second character and was opening every type lock, from novice to master, and only breaking maybe four picks on master? Ya that's not right. The entire pek tree is meaningless. My first character was a thief, yet I had ZERO lockpicking perks! Basically if you play a thief and mainly use a bow you only need to put perks in archery and sneak. That's it! The games still super easy on master with only two skills beig utilized to their full potential with perks. I know this because that was my character, and frankly it was boring. I'd try to find something, anything really, to waste perks on. Never felt satisfying once I figured out the "system", or lack thereof.

I wish they had made it like fallout, as the op mentioned, with your skill having to be >= the lock level to even try. The lockpicking game tself is just too easy anyways, that rightthere is the second biggest flaw. I hope someone out there can work withthis and make some meaningful changes.

Agreed, I haven't created a thief character yet with which I'll probably get some lockpicking perks, but on my first character who is fairly high level I've got lockpicking up to 50-60 or so from picking locked chests etc in dungeons, and I can pretty easily pick expert locks though master gives me some trouble but it's doable. Not one perk invested in lockpicking, does seem a bit of a waste to spend perks in it.

Though when you pick an expert level door only to find a burial urn with 10 gold it makes it seem even less worthwhile...

I feel the same way about pickpocketing. Kind of bizarre for pickpocketing to become a skill. Perhaps the two should have been merged. The skill would therefore have been called Picking, and applied to both locks and pockets.

The only reason I can think of for making lockpicking the way it is would be to avoid giving people the feeling that they need to put points into lockpicking to get anything done. Locking players out at certain levels limits personal freedom because the action of opening a lock in this game isn't all that complex, and there really isn't a good reason to keep people from doing it.

I would balance out lock difficulty with player freedom by making lower level locks tougher to crack and making picks harder to come by. Players can either take risks without the perks or they can put points into the tree and get things done faster and more reliably. As a result, lockpicking is presented to the player in the form of a challenge rather than a required skill and that would be better from a gameplay standpoint IMO.

Make It real time. Add time slowing perks. It becomes way harder and forces you to be quick, not to mention the imposibility of real thievery without It.

You hit the nail on the head. I find the harder the lock 90% of the time, the worse the loot is. Now making all the master locks really hard, and only having epic stuff in those locations, well that would make a world of difference!

its ridiculous because there is no bash lock for warriors or open lock spell for mages. what you are suggesting will gimp 2 of the 3 archtypes with the current leveling system that is in the game.

What they should have done was made accessing locks impossible unless you skill was high enough, not have the right perks. Perks should just make it easier. Skill should increase your ability, perks should increase your efficiency.

I liked fallout 3's system but I dont think that just because of a level you cant open a lock.

Cheers

Yeah.... some refocus on what is behind locked doors would be needed. And just doesn't have to be treasure, either.... Another interesting example would be that locked doors have shortcuts through dungeons, allowing you to bypass mini-bosses.

That way, if you invested your precious perks into lockpicking, you can actually feel tangible rewards.... The game rewards with you with "Here you go, you bothered to spend your points here, so now if you want you can take this shorter journey through the dungeon and be rewarded with higher level treasure too".

And so on.

?

Well my one warrior build is nealy full up on all perks in: 1h, block, HA. That's by level 45 (I also have smatterings of perks here and there across other disciplines).

I can't level my warrior perks in those discplines anymore as they are all at 100 skill. That's not to mention I have gimped myself by not realising that some of those perk points were wasted due to caps.

So I still have 36 perks (should I make it to level 81) to assign. What am I going to do with them? Hardly gimped now is it?

the op's suggestion is the same as saying you should get no benefits from drinking potions unless you put perks into alchemy.

That's assuming they have the same build as you, and imagine the amount of loot you'll miss before you invest in lockpicking. It would gimp the other two arch-types.

Even if Beth fixed lockpicking according to your suggestions, loot and craft system blows away the need for looting chests. Can't picklock? ok, who cares.

Done that. Picked a Master level lock and only got 57 gold and a skillbook, which i had already read before. Although, another time at Lvl 33 or 35 i picked a Master level lock, and got a Daedric Bow from it. But anyways, that's the problem with REQUIRING perks to pick higher locks, the random loot generator often times svcks.

You obviously haven't played Skyrim because Bethesda have DELIBERATELY designed exclusive functions to skills, thanks to the Class-less system. Duh.

Lockpicking is already the ONLY way to to open doors... You NEED to use the skill to open it. Making the skill more meaningful therefore doesn't actually violate the idea of playing as other archetypes. Your comment makes no sense.

I agree in principle, but if this was in the game, then I would only be comfortable with it if the Lockpicking perk upgraded itself like the Perk-system in Oblivion. No perk tree, the skill would just unlock perks on it's own when it got to a set skill level.

Also, Bethesda needs to add in a way for Mages to pick locks, by re-adding a tiered "unlock" spell. And, they need to add something for warriors to use to pick locks as well, such as the ability to bash doors, chests, etc. with a two-handed weapon or something.

With this "bashing" ability, a warrior could "pick" locks without actually having to use lockpicks, but they would also have a high percentage chance of destroying/eliminating some items inside of a chest/strongbox/etc. This could also add in possible perks, which would decrease the % chance of your bash destroying items.

Good ideas...!

However, I actually kind of like that there are exclusive benefits to archetypes now. The fact that lockpicking is the only way to open locked doors/chests bestows unique importance to that type of archetype.

Or another example, the fact that "Weakness To" and "Fortify" effects are now exclusively poison-based (for the most part) bestows unique importance to alchemy.

Having identical abilities no matter if you play as a Mage, Warrior, or Thief is a bit strange in my opinion. The essence of role playing (despite Elder Scrolls rapidly evolving out of the genre) is picking roles....