The cause of the Empire is more righteous, if that is what you mean by good/bad. This really says a lot about Ulfric's motivations:

I was agreeing with you. I could've worded that better I guess.

The captain ordered your death. Tullius didn't know, and Hadvar didn't want to. The actions of a petty officer do not represent the entire faction.

Whereas the actions of the supreme leader DO represent the other.
Actually, the Empire is TRYING to buy Cidhna Mine. The Silver-Bloods, who are independent, own it and run it. The Empire has nothing to do with Cidhna Mine or Markarth.

Oh, okay.

This is probably the most realistic aspect of the game... You live in a time of turmoil for the Empire, for Skyrim, and for The Reach. No empire likes to lose a country. No country likes to have the rules changed by their governing empire regardless of the reason. No country likes to lose a territory. No territory likes to have the rules changed by their governing country regardless of the reason. Three factions, The Imperials of the Empire, The Nords of Skyrim, and The Forsworn of the Reach, each have what they consider 'good reasons and better plans' for their people. They all depend on the same thing... someone else running the show. The Emporer wants all his citizens to adhere to the rules and laws of the Empire and to be content, including the Nords of Skyrim. Some Nords agree, some don't. Stormcloak wants the Nords of Skyrim to secede and fall under his rules and laws, and to be content. Some Nords agree, some don't. Madanach wants the Nords of the Reach to be self-governed under his rules and laws and to be content. Some Nords agree, some don't.
It falls to you to decide whose wagon you want to hitch your horse to, and live by the consequences generated by that decision. Happy Times!

the imperials are good
stormcloaks are bad

The empire isn't bad, nor are the stormcloaks.

What is bad is defined by what you see as bad and whether one/some of the faction's features looks bad to you.
For instance: I am chaotic neutral in my general life, anarchistic, and I find myself disliking the Empire for their expansive domination.
That might not be the same for the next person who posts but it's my viewpoint and one which I'm happy to weigh with others.

Now in my opinion: one should weigh both good points and bad points of each faction, then see who comes out on top.
I mean is racism a problem for you? no? 1 point to Stormcloaks, do you want to beat back the thalmor? yes! 1 point to the Empire.
It's all about weighing in your interpretation of a different faction's values and ideals then comparing them to another faction's.

Looking for an answer from this forum would not help. As people have several different viewpoints- arguments would be made anew,
new disagreeable discussions would be brought to the table, not giving you a clear answer unless you side with one person or the other.
It's like asking a group of baboons whether Banana A is bigger than Banana B, all you get in the end is a blood soaked corpse mound.

Not exactly.

We all know Tiber Septim is not a Divine.

There are only 8.

The stormcloaks are just entertaining their delusions of importance.

Very well put.

Compared to the treatment of refugees in our own history, especially from nations that are historical enemies, they have gotten off pretty easy.

Hell they even have a monument east of Windhelm. It's ruined and troll-ridden now but at least they built it with the blessing of every Jarl of Skyrim.

Nope.

Tullius didn't know? Tullius was two feet away, he obviously knew and didn't care.

I don't think he KNEW you weren't a rebel. He was hanging around the block when the captain said you would be executed anyway. I'd imagine he was preoccupied with the Thalmor agents, or the headsman, and wasn't paying attention to Hadvar and the officer calling off names.

..Eh, that's fair.

Right, if you ignore the overwhelming amounts of evidence that Talos is a Divine, including the Nerevarine personally speaking to his avatar.

I'm not. To heck with Star Wars. I always liked the Star Trek ideal.. an empire in it's own way.

Or the guy in my avatar. Conan was a Hibernian, but he shunned his own culture. He thought they were smallminded and unfun. So he became a thief and adventurer.. and eventually took over an empire of his own (The Aquilonians).

I'm playing a Nord and side with the empire. I don't see any problem with it. Nords created the empire. Nords make up a lot of the empire. I happen to like RPing a Nord character who enjoys different racial friends.. I mean, half of his followers are non-Nord. It'd make little sense to side with Stormcloacks for this character.

Secondly, whatever corruption exists in the Empire can be dealt with. When I first escaped Helgen, I still killed that old torturer when Hadvar left the room. haha. Consider it symbolic of what I do as time goes on.

If everyone is united under the Empire, their conflicts will be political and court matters, and not something they have soldiers go murder people over. The Stormcloaks would rather have themselves and loads of Imperials die, than have someone else have a say in how they do things. If the Stormcloaks have their way, Tamriel is a set of fragmented kingdoms and armies, with no real options to settle disputes other than swording everyone in their ways.

The Empire does insist you join it by whatever means necessary, but once you do, you are free to come participate in just about everything it does. If the Medes try to carry on as the Septims did, they will even make compromises with the people they rule in order to keep them peacefully in the Empire. They don't want to replace local rulers, just give them someone to all report to. And, again assuming the Medes act like the Septims, the rules they'll try hardest to push on their subjects will be beneficial things like banning slavery. The Stormcloaks, should they win out in future TES lore, are going to be a country full of people whose national pride is based on that time they fought some foreigners away and refused to let other races have power within their borders. That's just bad for everyone.

The Thalmor are separate, and the Empire is doing what it can within the terms of a surrender that they certainly didn't want. If they had the strength (which they are surely trying to rebuild), they would fight the Thalmor again. Talos represents the Empire's pride as much as he does the pride of the nords. The Thalmor feel about elves the way the Stormcloaks feel about nords, so even though the Empire and Thalmor are currently acting like one side, the Stormcloaks and Thalmor are similar factions, with the Empire opposing both of them as far as ideals.

Even with the Septims dead, the Empire have always been the good guys in TES. Main quests have usually (always?) put you on their side. I don't feel like that's really changed.

*sigh* Another person who thinks that all Stormcloaks are racist. I guess it's an uphill battle.

Im not sure what you are implying, but

Play as an elf.

Already have, thanks. Read my earlier posts.

Not exactly. I think they're annoying and misguided though. Ulfric himself instantly turned me off.. the way him and Galmar talk and schemed seemed weak and political.

But the average Stormcloak seems misguided. "Damn imperials!" "Death to the Empire!" "For Ulfric....and Skyrim!!!" They sound like fanatics, and worse, just following one dude. And they direct the brunt of their anger towards the empire.. who, in reality, is a weakened power. They should be saying "Death to the Thalmor", if anything. But they don't... and that turns me off. They all sound like simpletons, turning the empire into some juggernaut that it's not, and eating the scraps from the floor of just one guy.. who, when in his chamber, talks more like a politician than a warrior.

If the Empire had any spine they wouldn't have this rebellion in the first place. The Nords would be perfectly happy with the Empire if they had stood up to the Aldmeri dominion, in fact the Nords founded the Empire.

They stalemated the Aldmeri in the great war and even won the final battle, but they still gave in to every demand the Thalmor had. Why? Yes perhaps the legion was hurting but was the Dominion in any position to continue an offensive war after their army had been destroyed on the field?

Talks more like a politician than a warrior? If anything, he has the relentless and uncompromising attitude of an overzealous warrior.

As to the Stormcloaks' blatant hatred of the Empire, it was they who betrayed them to the Thalmor, who comprimised the ideals upon which the entire Empire was founded for a quick and easy peace, in spite of the sacrifices they had made to turn the tide of the Great War (and the tide of the war was turning). Don't even get me started on the consequences of banning Talos worship (the only Divine who's basically holding back the end of the world; his loss of recognition as a divine is almost certainly the reason that Alduin was allowed to return).


But you know what? Arguments like this are pointless. The civil war storyline is grey enough that arguing over which side is the best will not likely sway anyone.

Nords Value Honor and Prowess in battle, the empire gave BOTH up when they surrendered to the thalmor. ( juss my observation <--- )

talk to the HIGH ELF female shopkeeper in windhelm, she will tell you why i don't think stormcloak's are racist ( in general , not talking about Golmir stone-fist's brother )

I played both playthrough's and feel like i done the right thing on the stormcloak's side. Everyone one that says Ulfric is " power hungry, racist ect " well i bet they probally never met him ( talking about the NPC's )

But playing through the stormcloak's , I see no sign of Ulfric being power hungry, he want's the best for his people and i can't fault him for that.

Even tho i play as a khajiit , and every city denies my kind ( imperial capital as well , so i don't see juss stormcloak's and displaying some degree of racism )

But as for the dunmer.. well they have no right to complain, look at all the SLAVERY they done in morrowind, i just can't forgive them for that.