The English Language : Othor Games

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:37 pm

Irregular verbs are not too hard, imo. The pronunciation is much more difficult, as is the huge amount of words that exist in English. English is a very "accurate" language, there seem to be words for everything. In French for instance you have far fewer words to describe the act of looking, while in English you have verbs like glare, peer, gaze, peep, squint, ogle...

We have similar expressions in French, but not single words. That's part of what makes English both awesome and difficult to really master.

We have few rhymes but many synonyms.

Now I think of it, isn't that Romance mod yours, where all the scripts are written in French?

Another thing about learning foreign languages iss that other languages often have words that once had a translation into your language, but is no longer used.

For example, English tend to assume Gendarme means armed men, but it has an obsolete translation in English, "men at arms" which refers to a type of soldier.

Our own informal form of "you" "thou" is rarely used outside of the north of England, where it is rendered "thee" or "tha".

It's really a shame that standardisation and later the creep of clinical and politicised slang terms have ruined what was once a very poetic language.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:50 pm

My mom speaks a little French, she spent some time in up state New York and had some French Canadian friends, but she swears she is never going north of the Mason Dixon line again, in New York, she says, the sweet tea tastes awful, you can't find a good sausage/chicken/steak biscut for the life of you and that 95% of the population were lacking in decent manners, she also said that people up there don't get/use basic expressions, like "Its as broad as it is long" or "Beating a dead horse".

You have to be careful about familiar expressions that may be colloquialisms: for example, I'm English but I'm unfamiliar with "it's as broad as it is long" (I've no idea what it may be referring to) and of the latter expression, I'm more familiar with "flogging a dead horse". Likewise, I've no doubt there are countless expressions that are familiar to me that others would find perplexing or meaningless: but given that they're likely to be part of everyday speech for me, I can't come up with obvious examples offhand!

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:02 am

I'm a native speaker but from my limited experience of other languages I would say that English conjugation is ridiculously easy. It's just quite a simple, straightforward language as they go. The only "hard" bit is the spelling.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:03 pm

You have to be careful about familiar expressions that may be colloquialisms: for example, I'm English but I'm unfamiliar with "it's as broad as it is long" (I've no idea what it may be referring to) and of the latter expression, I'm more familiar with "flogging a dead horse". Likewise, I've no doubt there are countless expressions that are familiar to me that others would find perplexing or meaningless: but given that they're likely to be part of everyday speech for me, I can't come up with obvious examples offhand!

There's many a slip twixt cup and mouth!

I heard it on an old Doctor Who serial, I have endeavored to use it as often as possible, because nobody seems to have heard it. It's a way of saying you may be confident everything is going well, but there's still a lot that can go wrong in the final moments. Like screwing a homing beacon up so that the Ice Warriors' battle fleet crashes into the moon.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:43 am

I always found German to be fairly easy to learn, it seems to me that Germans simply combine existing words to create new words rather than create a completely new word. For example the German word for hospital is Krankhaus which translates literally to ill house. So when I was learning German and a new word appeared it would often be composed of words I already knew. Of course this makes german a little harder to speak as some of the words can get really long like naturwissenschaften.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:18 am

English is suppose to be the second hardest language to learn in the world. Chinese or Cantonese is suppose to be the hardest language.

I believe one of the reasons why English is so hard is because there is too many meanings for one world.

C

What am I saying? Is it water, as in sea, or eyes, you see with your eyes, or is it the letter C. Then you have it's saw. We all "saw" the trailer for Skyrim, but someone new to enlish is why are they taking a tool to cut up Skyrim trailer? Then again, why are we looking at at something that is attatched behind another vehicle?

Then we have Knights, nite or night. Why is it when we cut our meat, the instrument we use begins with a K and not an N? Another thing, in alot of languages, there is a masculin and feminin terminology. There is none of that in the English Language. No accents either, so people really have to know why you pronounce things properly. Eg, I before E except after C or when pronounced as A. Also a vowel is suppose to be soft unles it is followed by ONE concenate followed by ONE E at the end. Eg Lite. take away the E and it is lit. Also when you follow the other rules, like EE as in Meet, or ea also sounds the same Meat, there are words that don't even follow the rules and are still pronounced differently that makes no sense at all. Like how some vowels are pronounced HARD when they should be SOFT. (can't remember the example now.

)

There is so many rules for the English language. The problem is, most people espically native US or Canadian citizens (I mean people born there not Indians) don't even know how to talk and write properly. It is pretty damn sad that "ain't" has to be offically in the english dicitonary just because peopel do not know how to speak English properly.

So while many people think English is easy to learn, it might be easy to pick up and talk and speak with other people with English, but it doesn't mean people are using it correctly. I find forieners can use the English language properly than most native born English speaking people.

Just one thing that really, really bugged me there. "Lite" and "Nite" are not real words. They're simplified spellings of the words "Light" and "Night" respectively. I'm not being a GN, but that is one thing that needs to stop the world-over. I get it as a marketing ploy, but please don't let them become "actual" words.

I think generally the issue is that people tend to be brought up with it as either a first or second language, and so they learn it from a young age. Even then, the language is very hard to master. Idioms are the common problem with those who have it as a second language. We also use some sounds that aren't found in all of the other languages out there (just like a lot of English speaking people struggle to roll "r"s and the like).

EDIT:

And to what Jeffreddo said about people liking the sounds of other languages, I find that interesting. Most people tend to see the romance languages as "pretty" (Spainish/French/Italian) but personally they really get on my nerves, but I love the sound of German and other Germanic and Nordic languages. I also love the sound of the Slavic languages.

I think it comes down to exposure, something every-day will be come dull eventually, which is why I enjoy accents from other parts of the UK as well as those from further afield. My own accent seems dull, but when I step back and look at it from somebody else's perspective, I can see the appeal of it. Generally my accent isn't well received though

EDIT2:

Vometia:

I've always thought "It's as broad as long" means that it's the same in the end either way. As an example, if you are going somewhere, and there's two ways to get there, somebody might say "It's as broad as long", meaning there's not much difference in it either way.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:29 am

You have to be careful about familiar expressions that may be colloquialisms: for example, I'm English but I'm unfamiliar with "it's as broad as it is long" (I've no idea what it may be referring to) and of the latter expression, I'm more familiar with "flogging a dead horse". Likewise, I've no doubt there are countless expressions that are familiar to me that others would find perplexing or meaningless: but given that they're likely to be part of everyday speech for me, I can't come up with obvious examples offhand!

Very true.

And "its as broad as it is long" can be reffering to something that is in everyway superflorus and unessecary.

Todd Howard might say that spears are as broad as they are long.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:14 am

We have few rhymes but many synonyms.

Now I think of it, isn't that Romance mod yours, where all the scripts are written in French?

I was part of the team of modders who made it but I didn't write any of the scripts. If there are grammatical errors in the French comments I'm not responsible for them! : )

It's really a shame that standardisation and later the creep of clinical and politicised slang terms have ruined what was once a very poetic language.

I think the biggest threat to English is its position as the primary "global" language. I know the more speakers a language has the better it is... but with so many persons speaking a standardized (and perhaps simplified) version of English, there is the risk of losing some of its subtleties and colloquialisms, which most non-native speakers may not use or even "get." It's just speculation on my part, though. I do find it sad that many persons I know only learn English because it is "the language of business," and have no interest in the culture and literature that come with it.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:18 am

There is so many rules for the English language. The problem is, most people espically native US or Canadian citizens (I mean people born there not Indians) don't even know how to talk and write properly. It is pretty damn sad that "ain't" has to be offically in the english dicitonary just because peopel do not know how to speak English properly.

So while many people think English is easy to learn, it might be easy to pick up and talk and speak with other people with English, but it doesn't mean people are using it correctly. I find forieners can use the English language properly than most native born English speaking people.

Given the number of spelling and grammar errors in this post, its either deliciously ironic or you just proved your own point.

It's really a shame that standardisation and later the creep of clinical and politicised slang terms have ruined what was once a very poetic language.

The wonder of language is its adaptability. This goes doubly for a compound language like English. Our "poetic" tongue is already full of slang terms, only those slang terms have been around for long enough for most of us not to recognize them as slang. Languages are constantly evolving, and the addition of new words doesn't mean that they are suddenly ruined. Just because "ain't" is in the dictionary doesn't mean you can't write in traditional, formal prose.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:08 am

Being an English speaker as a first language, I don't know how difficult it is to learn, but I did French in school and I svcked at it. The only thing I was looking forward to was the oral examination....... and that wasn't what I expected.

:rofl: Tell me I'm not the only one who laughed at this.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:58 am

As a native English speaker, I cannot comment on how hard it is to learn (Though I've heard it's relatively easy to learn the basics)

On the other hand, mastering English can be very difficult. I'd like to think I know the grammatical working intricacies of the English language, along with pronunciation, but I know I make mistakes, and make them somewhat often. In fact, pronunciation of English makes little sense at some times, especially with regional accents. Ask someone how you say worcestershire, caramel, or even simple words like about. You will get vastly different answers depending on where the person lives.

http://cristal.inria.fr/~xleroy/stuff/english-pronunciation.html (I admit, some of the words I don't know how to say, and some of the words I disagree on the pronunciation of. I mean, Arkansas rhyming with four? Whaaat?

)

Edit: In contrast, learning Spanish pronunciation was very easy (thank you vowels ALWAYS making the same sounds etc.)

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:25 pm

It depends, I think, on what language(s) you already know. If you speak a Latin-based language like Spanish or French, it'll be easier than if you speak something completely different, like Japanese.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:55 pm

Incredibly easy, don't know why. :mellow:

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:33 pm

the words I disagree on the pronunciation of. I mean, Arkansas rhyming with four? Whaaat?

)

I thought that was correct?

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:45 am

:rofl: Tell me I'm not the only one who laughed at this.

I only laugh at funny posts.

:P

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:07 pm

I thought that was correct?

Exactly.

I myself pronounce it (R-cansaw)

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:14 am

I thought that was correct?

I think that's the point, isn't it? A bit like mock surprise at finding that Worcester rhymes with "booster" and Bicester with "mister".

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:49 am

English was first born as a "commerce" langage, meaning, striped of most declinations and conjugations, feminine/masculin marks... Simplified so many people could understand each other easily. Of course, over time it got more complex but never as much as older languages. Today, it serves well as an international langage for those same qualities.

Although English influences other languages over the world, at worst, it will only change those languages at the vocabulary level and some twists in "sentence build-up", not erase them. French did the same in its glory days (e.i. Renaissance <-- see, French word). Many languages could learn of a simplified grammar.

It was easy for me to learn, but I don't master it, not at all. Keep looking for words in dictionnary, my spelling most be horrible at times too. My French basis helps me understand a lot. What I find harder with English is those damn prepositions. One insignificant prep can change the whole meaning of a verb... Argg!
I tried a little spanish, and except taking a hold of different verb tenses (that don't exist in my mother tongue), vocabulary is what I need to learn more. But that's pretty much it for every languages, learning many words. Anyway, you need to know about 800 words in a langage to understand it... and some dogs can. So.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:00 am

English was first born as a "commerce" langage, meaning, striped of most declinations and conjugations, feminine/masculin marks... Simplified so many people could understand each other easily. Of course, over time it got more complex but never as much as older languages. Today, it serves well as an international langage for those same qualities.

Although English influences other languages over the world, at worst, it will only change those languages at the vocabulary level and some twists in "sentence build-up", not erase them. French did the same in its glory days (e.i. Renaissance <-- see, French word). Many languages could learn of a simplified grammar.

It was easy for me to learn, but I don't master it, not at all. Keep looking for words in dictionnary, my spelling most be horrible at times too. My French basis helps me understand a lot. What I find harder with English is those damn prepositions. One insignificant prep can change the whole meaning of a verb... Argg!
I tried a little spanish, and except taking a hold of different verb tenses (that don't exist in my mother tongue), vocabulary is what I need to learn more. But that's pretty much it for every languages, learning many words. Anyway, you need to know about 800 words in a langage to understand it... and some dogs can. So.

I don't think it was born as a commerce language, English came out of an amalgamation of the languages that were brought here by invading powers. Starting roughly with the Angles and Saxons, and later Latin and French came in through means of Christianity and the Norman invasion of 1066. You'll see strong links between other Germanic languages and English in words that would have been used everyday by the majority of the population (mostly farmers at the time), so words like, cow, sheep, and body parts, arm, leg etc. Notice the short formation of the word common in other Germanic languages? And then we get synonyms from the French, the French at the time being the lords, usually ate "beef"(Beuf in French?) and "mutton"(similar again), so we got the separation between the animal in the field and the food on the plate. We also took French words for government, as they were the ones in power. I've probably not done a good job of explaining that too well. More recently it's become a commercial language, but that's probably got a lot to with how it was spread throughout the world during times of expansion.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:22 am

I don't even remember learning english. It's like it just happened...

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:10 pm

As a Chinese I found English rather easy. But I don't find French much difficult than English, so I guess it's only a matter of dedication.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:52 pm

I don't speak English I speak American.

Spoiler

P.S. Its a joke.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:32 am

Best spelling in the English language, the family name Featherstonaugh, pronounced fan-shaw. Why? No idea, but I can understand when the American spelling of words is simplified.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:51 pm

Let’s face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren’t invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren’t sweet, are meat. We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don’t fing, grocers don’t groce and hammers don’t ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn’t the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? One index, 2 indices? Doesn’t it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend? If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why didn’t preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out and in which an alarm goes off by going on. English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race (which, of course, isn’t a race at all). That is why, when the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible.

» Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:21 pm

Best spelling in the English language, the family name Featherstonaugh, pronounced fan-shaw. Why? No idea

I'm assuming it was an abbreviation of some sort, but can't quite see how: it's more obvious with my previous example of Worcester, which I guess (without checking its etymology) acquired its pronunciation perhaps along the lines of "Wo'ster". Featherstonehaugh is more obtuse, though: but I did know a Featherstone which was pronounced much as you'd expect, thankfully.

I guess having numerous roots and even more numerous loan-words is responsible for the somewhat eclectic, inconsistent and bloody-minded spelling, but even at my age I find it hard to keep up.