I've heard lots of people complaining about Skyrim being too easy and having too much hand-holding, and I've always been annoyed by that, because it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. But I guess I'm about to become one of those people, because lately I've been noticing more and more "hand-holding" in the game.

Today I was doing a quest for the Imperial Legion, and I got to one of those ring puzzles on a door. I already knew how to do it, but for someone who has never seen one of those it might be interesting to have to try and figure it out. So I walked up to the door and looked at the puzzle. Then one of the soldiers who was with me spoke up. Here's about how it went:

Me: Walks up to the door.

Soldier: "Look, there's some kind of stone claw on the ground."

Me: Picks up the claw and activates the door. A trap is set off.

Soldier: "I wouldn't do that again unless you're sure it's going to open." (Thanks captain obvious...)

Me: Starts messing with the rings.

Soldier: "It looks like you have to open the door by rotating those rings in the right order."

Me: Rotates the rings a few more times.

Soldier: "Maybe the order you need is written on the claw itself!"

Me: "Wow really?! thanks for walking me through the entire puzzle step by step! Maybe i should just watch you do it next time!"

Things like this have just started to bug me lately. I still love Skyrim, and a little thing like this isn't going to make me hate the game or anything, but I kind of miss how you used to have to use your brain a little bit, and you got a feeling of accomplishment from finishing a quest. And I'm not even that old, so this isn't just nostalgia talking.

So yeah, sorry for the long post, just wanted to put this out there. What are your guys' thoughts on the issue?

There are a couple places in the game where things like that happen.

On one hand, it can ruin a perfectly good puzzle, but on the other hand, if you are stuck, the hints can help before the player gives up.

I guess the balance is trying to decide when the player is stuck and providing the assistance that they need, but not too soon or the game ceases to become a challenge.

It is unfortunate that they give away the answers so quickly. Puzzles are valuable in this game because there are so few of them; Skyrim tends to re-use puzzle themes and once you see the theme it is just a matter of execution. Myst it is not.

To each his own I guess. I hate puzzles and platformers, dislike them greatly.

But I'd like to mention that I did not notice any hand-holding in the game and that I spent a long-while on some of those 'claw-doors'.

personally, i can't stand the lack of complexity, difficulty, meaningfulness and maturity in the game.

i do all i can to create them artificially. i shouldn't have to.

the next gamesas game will not be an auto-purchase, for me. it's incredible that it has come to that.

If your going to have puzzles them at least make them a bit of a challenge. If I get stuck I can always go to the wiki..I hate "hand-holding"

I could do with a little less handholding in certain areas. But watching my husband play some of his games, that have little to no handholding, and constantly have to go help him "find" himself, is driveing me batty. I can see where some ppl might need some help, I just think alot of the handholding in Skyrim should be optional.

BTW for the first month I was doing those door puzzles the "hard way"..... ie Bear...bear...bear...turn claw...nope...moth...bear...bear...turn claw...nope etc... Took me awhile to figure out the answer to the puzzle was "in my hand's" so to speak.

If you were in a dungeon with your fellow soldiers, and one of them was attempting to solve a puzzle, wouldn't YOU want to help them? Or would you say 'sorry, I'm not going to help you because that's be hand-holding.'

Yeah it depends on which ones you do I guess. Some puzzles are left completely up to you, and some are like I described.

But what are the chances that they would immediatley know exactly how to solve the puzzle, and just spit the answers out at you? Maybe I should add that this all took place over a span of about 1 minute.

I guess it wouldn't be a problem if they gave you more time to figure it out on your own, and only added the dialogue after it's been so long that you must really need it.

The hand-holding in this game is made even worse by the fact that your quest log usually doesn't tell you much at all, which effectively forces you to use the quest markers.

"Maybe the order is written on the claw itself!" Sounded like the script writers were trying to hand me the answers at that part. It would have been better if the hints were a little more subtle and the characters didn't have sudden revelations that would point you to the answer.

"Wait, what are those markings on the claw?" would have sounded much more beleivable...

I've noticed they do this at odd places. I think the hand-holding is just there for people who plow through questlines without thinking.

Example:

At one point in the TG, a person was telling me about the Bone Alarms and pressure plates long after I had maximized the sneaking skill and new about both of them. Every time he opened his mouth I rolled my eyes, but it got worse because he activated the very traps he warned me about.

It is weird that they tell you about the Claw in the Civil War though, considering at that point, you've probably done the Golden Claw quest and already know about how they function.

I generally agree with the OP about the hand-holding, but in this case, I think Bethesda intended this to be the first quest the player completes with a Claw in it. However you choose to end the intro, they point you in the direction of the civil war questlines.

I'm ok with this, even though I imagine that most people completed the Golden Claw quest first.

The correct way to solve this would be to add a "handholding" slider in the game options menu. Goes from "leave me alone" to "carry me through" with a few levels inbetween.

Also, while we're at it, i'd like to see some better quest objective descriptions. I'd love to turn off the quest marker, but the current descriptions are completely meaningless by themselves.
"Go speak to xyz" won't help me much if the description does not tell me where "xyz" is. After a few hours in game, i won't remember everyone's name, let alone where i met them.

We need a real quest journal with locations and names of people we talked to.

i agree it is annoying at times sometimes people want to spend forever trying to figure something out as it makes it a much more memorable experience then when everything going swimmingly. and bethesda should take note that in gaming there is a fine line between being helpful and blatantly insulting the intelligence of the player most TES players are 15 and up not 8 and up.

This games tailored for noobs and casual gamers..
They wanted to steal some of the players from call of duty and convert them to rpg...

Games nowadays have to cater to the greatest common factor.

However, games nowadays don't have to not have toggle options to reduce hand-holding.

I completely agree with both of these statements.

talk about shooting a fly with a bazooka the irritations are not that large its just some small things that treat you as if you have the intelligence of a 4th grader.

There's an in-game book explaining that the claw "puzzles" aren't intended to keep people out, merely to keep the draugr in; the answers on the claw make sure that whatever's trying to open the door has a working brain.

And the line is "Is there anything on the claw that might show how to open this door?"

The claw puzzle was never intended to be a big secret; after all, Todd showed how to do it in some promo videos. The line just brings everyone up to speed on what was never a puzzle in the first place, in-game and out.

Thank you. There's plenty of hand-holding-bashing to be had with Skyrim, but the Claws do not belong in that discussion.

Eh... lack of consequence and response and meaning to your various deeds still holds the title for biggest issue in my opinion.

alas a dunmer i can agree with...who for some reason is in a bunny suit.

Really? That's pretty cool.


I know I didn't get the wording exactly right on everything, but that's still just as annoying IMO.

I'm not saying the claw thing in particular is the problem, it was just an example.