I mean, the very first video games were made for arcades and built to be quarter-eaters. No one today would want a game like the original Mario (well, 99%) where you're stuck on one screen trying to dodge barrels.

But we've long surpassed the "difficulty for extended gameplay" mark, and there comes a point where challenging gameplay does make it more fun. I don't think gamers have gotten younger or dumber (hint: gamers have ALWAYS been young and dumb. You might be 40 now but you didn't start playing games yesterday, you started 30 years ago)

I'm waiting for the company that says "Our new game is really only for smart people who want a challenge, dumb people just won't enjoy it." And guess what? Not only will they captivate the "older, intelligent" audience, but many of the so called "young and dumb" crowd will say "hey...I'm intelligent enough for your game." and even if that's not what they were looking for, many will develop a taste for more complex gameplay, and may become dissatisfied with the "awesome button" mechanics of modern "streamlined" games.

Mostly because games don't include these things anymore. I remember inputting all those codes in games on the N64 for all the fun they created. Games today usually never have cheat codes. It's all about earning achievements fairly these days, and it's easier to just not include cheats than to program all those checks and requirements to make sure you aren't getting any achievements through cheating.

I would say that maybe the modern gamer is older - not teens and kids who have tons of time on their grubby little hands. And I don't have time for trial-and-error for half and hour to beat one level of a game. I want to relax and feel competent. I don't want the pace to be interrupted. I have other things I want to do each day. And when I do spend a few hours playing a game, I want to feel like I am making progress.

For example, I was playing a PS2 game called Kya: Dark Lineage. I like it fine, but there's this one "racing" type of section where I have to not only go at high speeds but also avoid obstacles and lava. I tried that section over a dozen times. Unlike some other games, I wasn't getting further with each trial - sometimes I'd die within the first 10 seconds three times in a row, other times getting a little further, but mostly perishing whenever some new twist I didn't see coming killed my character. So, nice game otherwise, but I don't have time to waste playing the same segment over and over, where the only way to pass is through trial and error. Is that "old school"? If so, then I'm glad it is gone. Life is hard enough as it is. I like a challenge, but not the sort that can only be beaten by bashing my face into the screen until I get it right.

This is my point exactly! There is no difference between a "modern" or "old school" gamer - gamers now are just as they've always been, only somewhat more numerous and possibly from a wider demographic. And yet there's a trend among developers to think that their designs must evolve to accomodate some fallacious trend to make every game playable by everyone, rather than just their target audience. They drive the real challenge out of playing the game at all, and if a game is made too easy it ultimately loses value for the player, since there is less for them to learn and accomplish, and their triumphs are only hollow set-ups. It's troubling that often it seems more preferable to flog as many copies of your game as possible, plastered with hundreds of filler achievements, rather than trying to provide real satisfaction from playing a deep and involving game. It's ludicrous: if someone were to release a reboot of Elite that maintained the same complex gameplay (but with shinier graphics, of course) I'd bet anything it would be hailed as the game of the year.

This is one of the many reasons why I liked Tomb Raider Underworld. I died more times in that game than any I've played in the last decade XD.

I'm convinced that we're simply seeing a trend in development. Movies have trends (terrible, terrible 80's shoot-em-up films were all the rage back then), and its no doubt that games do too. Eventually sales will start shifting to different kinds of games and developers will end up shifting to making games more and more like what's selling best at the time. If Ninja Gaiden suddenly started selling insane amounts of copies every single time it released (I know it sells well already, but I mean selling REALLY well), then companies would be hard pressed NOT to start making games that are as hard as Ninja Gaiden.

Just as the 90's were the golden age of computer RPGs, and perhaps the 2000's the age of the first person shooter, perhaps our new decade will have something different.

Please let it be the age of hardcoe third person action games like Ninja Gaiden and DMC. The world is in incredibly low supply of those, which is a crying shame.

I guess depending on your definition of hardcoe...Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, God of War, Dante's Inferno, Darksiders...

I want more open world RPGs...someone to compete with Bethesda, make em sweat a little. I still think Two World's has potential, just lacks experience. Luckily it seems they sell well in Europe so they will keep making games.

That's not old school, that's what we call an obtrusive minigame of an unrelated genre thrown in as a cheap attempt to add variety.

They need more soul crushing games like Dark souls or whatever.

I hear its quite frustrating.

But then again I think its dumb it doesn't save constantly. I believe games should auto save a bit more, I'm all for challenging combat and initiative for the player. but having me redo hours of gameplay for one mistake?

Nah.

Dark Souls will be a hard enough game, but still enjoyable. It is very much a trial and error game, designed to kick the players @ss.

Never describe Demon's Souls (and presumably, Dark Souls) as frustrating. It's merciless, but fair. It's a game that demands you learn from your mistakes, and not get complacent and cocky when you do. Frustration only kicks in when you repeatedly fail to do either...or if you just can't stand the fact that you just died.

Well I haven't played it. But I'm not a big fan of redoing hours of gameplay.

Yes, modern gamers are a lot younger and mostly like to play an FPS.

I want a game to bring back one hit kills (Contra, most side scrollers) and see people rage.