i did it both with and without. I also did with Switch and that was a riot. I got crippled limbs and was basically playing ninja for a bit while the water canteen kicked in for a bit.

So far it seems like close to every one here prefers the latter.

I suspect that more people here than you might think actually would prefer to not become godly, however the way the engine is set up it's difficult to properly scale the opposition against a really high-level player character.

Oblivion scaling went massively overboard in the HP department, which resulted in a fricking Goblin being able to tank up to 30 or so max-damage hits during a fight that took 15 minutes. As a result, whenever people suggest any form of level-scaling a tidal wave of complaints comes pouring forth because nobody wants to see that mess return.

Unfortunately, level-scaling really is the only way we're going to have anything even remotely resembling a challenge past about L20 or so, but proper implementation thereof is fairly tricky to pull off. Overdo the HP and you have the Oblivion problem all over again, overdo the damage scaling and it's the Overlord/Hillfolk problem from FO3.

NPCs, at least, can have this at least partially handled in the quality of their equipment: as the NPC's level increases, draw from two leveled lists with progressively better Tier and Condition weapons and armor. NPCs should also increase the quality of their ammo, ultimately using either Hand-Load or Max Charge ammo; progression would roughly be HP/standard--->standard/OC--->hand-load/MC. A L40 (or 50) NPC would thus have the best quality and condition armor their faction possesses while wielding one of the best weapons with either hand-load or MC ammo as appropriate.

Creatures are a bit harder to scale, since their 'weaponry' and 'armor' only have one grade and ignore condition. Deathclaws have partial scaling already built-in; they get a massive damage bonus that makes it appear they are bypassing DT, and have multiple 'ranks' you can fight, all the way up to the Legendary one. However, their damage and HP are fixed, so once you get heavy weapons they have no chance as they never get to hit you and apply all that damage. The best thing would probably be to use these as 'base' values and ad a small scaling factor, while also having a HP cap in order to keep things reasonable (for reference, the Legendary DC has 800HP).

Um, "the latter" means I was saying that most people here prefer the game to be this way:

Ah, I misinterpreted the comment in question. Good to see that at least some folks still want challenge in their games. :goodjob:

The people who tend to forum here more are the more accomplished and hardcoe gamers of this community.
These are the guys that have played hundreds of hours, have several completed playthroughs, tested several different builds, explored every nook and cranny in New Vegas etc.
Of course we are gonna want the game to be challenging without it being preposterous.
There is a difference between frustrating challenges (Oblivion Orge having more HP than a mountain. Its just a freaking orge...) and the kind of challenges that make people feel like they just accomplished something (defeating Camp Golf where you have many skilled enemies that are well equipped and well trained).

Of course this being said the community hear can't claim to be representative of the entire community.

Good example of this is the annoying people that always come in just to ask when the hell the next DLC is out and make 1000000 threads about it even though there are 3 other threads in the first place about the SAME TOPIC. People who forum more, or lurk know better than to do that :down:

But that doesnt mean Obsidian has to cater to the casual player. Ever played a game called Ninja Gaiden? Perhaps one of the hardest games ever made and it's an extremely successful series. The key is to make the game enjoyable but difficult at the same time. If that can be accomplished it will be more of a success because who doesnt like the feeling of overcoming something against all the odds?

Of course Obsidian doesn't HAVE to cater to the casual player but like many game companies they get stumped by exactly how much they have to go either direction (hardcoe gamer vs casual player).
Like with ALL popular games of this complexity you are gonna get people *****ing and complaining on both sides. Make it too hard and you get people complain about how they can't get anywhere. Make it to easy and you get hardcoe gamers complaining about how they can mastvrbate, eat pizza, and take a dump all at the same time as they play the game because they can't die.

All Obsidian can do is shoot for some middle ground and hope BOTH sides don't complain too much.

I like that idea gunny when I see your name I remember the movie heartbreak ridge its a really good movie should watch it if you have not already.

Thats why I am on hardcoe and very hard in fallout. In league of legends I like being godly but in fallout 3 and fallout New Vegas its so much more fun knowing if you are not careful you could get killed lol. Honest hearts was a boost in the challenge for me.

In My opinion there should be areas where enemies level up according to your level, like in a place such as the warzone mod on PC but, if all enemies level acording to yours then really theres not much point in leveling other than perks and skills and it will, not completely but almost make the "leveling your characer stronger" ideaology redundant and usless.

but we do...ghoul reavers are a joke now, there not fun to encounter and we dont need OVERLY POWERFUL WEAPONS c'mon now thats like sneaking around the wasteland with a sniper asking for more enimies. im not saying make boss level creatures and people as common as everything else but we do need more boss level encounters, and random event but this is not a topic for this thread

I say we bring back the Gojira and give it some minions this time. :toughninja: :ahhh:

if only there was an option like the hardcoe option you can turn it on or off whenever you want, not rocket science

Hopefully it won't make Deathclaws wonder around.

I think the possible reapplication of traits in OWB, along with a possible level cap, at aimed at letting the hardcoe player choose a harder path, like the hardcoe decision at the beginning of the game. I'd love to hear about player who somehow got to the sink and capped themselves at level 3 only to continue through and beat the game, if it's true.
As to possible encounters with DLC creatures in the wasteland, it would be pretty nice to take out giant cazadores along the river from the sniper's nest, but I imagine a development like that would come out after lonesome road. By, the way, is the title "Lonesome Road" a reference to Lonesome Dove, a popular western book and movie? I've seen Dead money and Honest hearts titles explained, but haven't seen this one addressed.

wut i hope they would of done is wut they did in fallout 3 like with the super mutants....
like how there first was just normal mutants then brutes then masters....with dlc overlords
but my poiont being iss that i hope if they bring a new enemies in the the Mojave that it would be like that

BTW i found this on twiter

ChrisAvellone Chris Avellone
@
@AlexThompson007 Core enemies from the main game were designed to scale to level 50, and some of the DLCs have level 50-specific enemies.

Feral Ghoul Reavers in FO3 were just ridiculous. There's a difference between 'jump in challenge' and 'brick wall', and they fell squarely on the side of the latter. The ones in F:NV are more in line with proper progression, which, admittedly, makes them a bit too weak. On the other hand, Ferals aren't supposed to be all that tough, so it makes sense that even the 'boss' ones wouldn't be that hard to deal with.

More generally speaking, we don't need more 'boss' encounters but rather regular ones that scale with the player to some degree. I know it's an unpopular idea, but as long as the player can massively outstrip the opposition in terms of gear and HP there will never be any challenge at the highest levels. This does not mean that every NPC at higher levels should have top-end weapons and armor, only those for whom it makes sense; Fiends and Vipers should never be a challenge for a high-level PC, while BoS, Legion, and NCR should never be easy for them.

Basically, I want limited level-scaling rather than across-the-board application thereof, since the latter does not work.