I play on Adept, where the game still gives me plenty of challenge.

I found that my pure Destruction mage felt like easy mode.

However, it required dedication. I pretty much only levelled Destruction and Alchemy. No armor, no weapons, no other magic schools, no enchanting. Alchemy was for getting a nice boost to the spell damage, when I needed it - but I want to stress that I rarely needed potions. During big boss fights, yeah I'd chug a Restore Magicka potion, or Fortify Destruction, but that is to be expected - and all of those fights were easier than similar fights when I was playing a warrior type. (Maybe I just svck at playing warriors )

Most of the time, though, I used staves and scrolls when I felt like they would be needed, shouts to keep baddies off me - and it helps to take a very careful, cautious approach to encounters. Anyway, I never had trouble, and never felt like I was exploiting the game.

I have no problems with destruction at all and for the life of me I cannot understand what everyone whines about with regards to it.

Because of the above numbers. That is why people are whining about it. The specialized enchanting gear necessary for it to function at all at higher levels should actually make it amazing, because that is min-maxing. Min maxing should definitely not be necessary in a game like this. People who have no problem with destruction are generally people like me, who habitualy min-max our equipment. Playing a mage using destruction requires you to lose all flexibility in gear enchants. I doubt this is how it's supposed to work.

You don't actually need specialised anything for it to work, you just need to adapt.

You mean destruction doesn't work properly, so use something else instead? That's kind of missing the point. The other magic schools are able to do their jobs because their costs are more appropriate for their effect. Summoning a frost astronach that can take multiple enemies on its own costs barely more than a single chain lightning spell, which amounts to the damage from a single melee strike from a competent warrior. Fast healing with the appropriate perks heals over twice the amount it costs, and it is only concerned with restoring a portion of one numeric total, while destruction operates at a deficit(regardless of perks) and must deplete multiple health totals, often exceeding your own... Don't delude yourself about a balance between skills that clearly does not exist.

You guys missing a really damn obvious point.

Those numbers are fine, because in case you have forgotten, raising your skills and getting the perks for certain levels of magic makes the cost of the magic go down. So if you don't have much point in Destruction or you did not even pick magicka at leveling up, you're not going to cast those spells as often as you like because you are not a very good mage.

I thought differences between character archetypes were a good idea...

They should use the oblivion destruction reduction formula:

Cost = BaseCost * (1.4 - 0.012 * Skill)

The reduction perks are a JOKE.

My thoughts exactly.
It was painful to get spells that were obsolete even before you got them, and completely underwhelming when the Master-level spells didn't even scratch the strongest opponents.

No.
That's not what I mean.

this is a single player game right?, and the only difference between difficulties is how difficult the game is right? (what i mean is, you don't get anything special for playing master instead of novice). so take the difficulty down until you feel it's right for you.

If some skills completely fail at a certain difficulty level but others don't, then that is a clear indication there is a flaw.

So at skill level 100 and with the perk you'd cast for 10% of the base cost (~300 for expert projectile spells, ~140 for adept projectile and ~1200 for master ice and fire, ~140 per second for shock master).

That's not a bad idea, 30 magicka for the expert spells single cast at skill level 100. Then they have to stop 100% spell cost reduction, limit it to 50%, resulting in 15 per expert spell single cast, which is much more reasonable.

We probably shouldn't have to turn down the difficulty and compromise the entire experience and sense of progress just to make a skill viable. That's what destruction needs, a sense of progress. Higher level mages are just going oom faster against more powerful enemies, effectively punishing the player for advancing. That is not how it should work.

I think it'd be cool if they had ultra-powerful destruction spells that did more damage the more Magicka it consumed.

So what the spell does is use up all of your Magicka and then depending on how much Magicka you had depends on the power of the attack. So if I had barely any Magicka it'd be nothing or barely anything but If I had full Magicka and it was something really high like 400+ Magicka it'd be some kind of mini nuke or something.

It could be a risky but possibly a life saving move I guess. I don't know if this is a good idea but I just thought it was something different. I usually only play pure mages so these spells aren't very safe for someone like me who only uses magicka attacks haha.

How do you know it's not the player failing?

Because the player is punished for leveling when using destruction without obsessive alchemy/enchanting min maxing. Skyrim is far from a challenging game on adept, and all other offensive skills confer a sense of power at high skill levels. Destruction is the exception. I've been able to "get by" with destruction, but I still know the numbers behind it, and they are terrible. It's not hard for me to see how the average player will get frustrated with the current implementation of the skill. Magic loses much of it's appeal because it fails to integrate smoothly with player progression which is the core of the rpg experience.

I don't know man. I know they're called "Master" spells and they're the most powerful spells available in Skyrim to any life form, but come on, the most powerful spell should never deal decent damage, right? Master spells are for the weak, Apprentice is the way to go

Actually, lightning storm is pretty powerful.

Destruction magic has always had this problem. It's like a tradition in Elder Scrolls games for high cost Destruction spells to svck.

I remember in Daggerfall the only real effective method of using Destruction being the spamming of low powered "damage area around caster" spells. They also had the effect of pushing away the enemy, and so effectively made you invincible. The big booms were as often lethal to the caster as to the enemy (a favorite trick when facing liches). (Oh, I just remembered, playing sorcerers and hitting things with those lethal big booms at point blank range worked well, as well, as you automatically absorbed any spell you cast yourself.)

I don't recall ever playing a destruction based character in Morrowind. I remember trying, and failing, because destruction magic just couldn't kill much before you emptied your tank.

Oblivion was the only one where I played a lot of destruction magic, and this was because of the incredibly lethal nature of custom made spell chains. Skyrim lacking custom spells, that possibility is removed.

IMO, it would seem more plausible (in fantasy fiction), were spellcraft bound by a law of diminishing returns... Such that the cost of a minor increase in magical damage is paired with perhaps even an exponential increase in casting cost (beyond a certain point). I'm not suggesting what that cost is, but in my mind it should not be 1 to 1, and if you get X for Y you should never expect to get double Y for only double the cost in X.

Yeah, master shock spells is quite powerfull if you do the correct things: command a summond to make the distraction , use ethereal form shout , drink you anti-broke-destruction potion and direct the bast to the dragon head.
But when i tried to kill 1 [censored] guard in white run (playing in master) at 10 m (i dont kno how much feets or yards are 10 m ) he didn't die , he got close with 3/4 of his health bar full.

edit : i made a tweet on Pete's account asking him if there is chance to put increasing damage on fortify destruction enchant. No answer.

I agree that it shouldn't be so simplified, but the numbers are still too damn high. Maybe a 10-15% increase in cost for double damage plus the doubled magicka so:
51 magicka = 25 damage
117 magicka = 50 damage

Destruction 100%: cost = 0.6 x base cost
Expert perk: 0.5x modifier

Thus a fully developed destruction mage will spend only 0.3x magica points for a destruction spell. If you wear some item with "eminent destruction" in the name (helmet, armor, circlet or ring), it will cut down the cost of a 20% further.

If you don't mind not wearing an armor, you can use an expert robe of destruction (quite common in stores, base cost around 4000 septims) which will cut down spell magica usage by the 20% while, at the same time, boosting regeneration by the 125%.
I think Bethesda has been very careful (too careful, perhaps?) to make offensive magic not too powerful in Skyrim.

Ever played Morrowind? Probably the least balanced game I has run into.
Oblivion is pretty balanced, Skyrim is something less again. Removal of spell making and weakness spells was an terrible nerf to mages, the +40% damage enchants was an serious boost for weapon users, needed however with smithing bonus+ sneak attacks and the enchant damage bonus they become overpowered.

People always trot out the "need to abuse enchant/alchemy" with Destruction - but it is simply not true.

I assure you, from personal experience, a focused Destruction build is not only possible, not only viable, but has been one of my easiest characters. Again, I play on Adept, so I can't speak to Expert/Master difficulty - but then, I've never felt the desire to increase the difficulty with any of my characters. My current Destruction mage has only used enchanted gear he found in the game. I think currently he has a circlet of Destruction and the Arch-mage's robes. What's that, 27% cost reduction? I wouldn't call that min-maxing or 'abuse', would you? And the thing is, it wasn't as if I was running around in a panic before I got that gear... it was nice to have, but it didn't feel like I needed it.

Same thing for Alchemy. I've been working it up, but I think it's still in the 30s, and I have way more potions than I actually use. Fortify Destruction potions are something I chug before a big battle, but not even all the time then. Restore Magicka is a little more important, but you don't need to rely on those as much as many people claim - provided you use sound tactics.

No need for constant Impact spam, either. It just takes serious dedication to Destruction, and a careful, strategic approach to encounters - using all the tools in your box.

For example, many players deride Rune spells as 'useless' at mid-high levels. Not so. With the Rune Master perk, you can cast a rune well ahead of you, down a hallway or into a room which you might suspect contains enemies. The sound of the spell will draw foes out to investigate. Meanwhile, just stand there, let your Magicka refill (which will be quick, because you're not in combat until you're detected), and ready your next spells. Rune gets triggered, you get detected, and you follow up with a dualcast fireball.

Even Flames retains its utility at higher levels. I still have it hotkeyed, and I'm level 20something. Flames. How can it possibly be useful? Well, that 8/sec damage has been boosted by my perks, and dualcasting, to make a good - and incredibly cheap - follow-up to the higher-Magicka spells like Fireball or Incinerate.

Ever notice that staves get better as your Destruction skill gets better? Not only is your use of Destruction staves more efficient as you level up, but the augmented-damage perks also affect the damage of related staves. Sometimes it makes sense to open a fight with a spell or two cast from a staff, then switch to your own spells, to reserve your Magicka. Ditto with scrolls and shouts.

Really, guys, you can't just run through dungeons spamming Incinerate all day and expect to succeed as a mage. And nor should you. If you could, it just wouldn't be fun.