[Floor Punch]

Just ignore the quests in your journal, what's the problem?

I have a feeling that if they added a "hide" box function on the quest tab, this would solve a lot of issues.

[Chavala]

THe only point I've felt "railroaded" was in that I apparently *had* to go along with Brynjolf's initial bit of thieve's guild skulduggery in order to get down to the Ragged Flagon and pursue the main storyline quest. There may have been some other option but I don't see how it would've been doable without joining the thieves' guild if you weren't willing to go online and look up spoilers to complete the quest.

[FLYBOYLEAK]

The point is that you're not forced to complete the quest.

Of course not, but that doesn't mean expecting players to ignore quests in their ever-filling log book (I think more than half the quests in my log currently are junk, and I have a number of quest items stuck in my inventory that I won't be able to get rid of because I'm not doing the associated quest), or avoid potential quest givers at all costs, is good design. It's pretty bad design for role-playing, and it makes navigating through the log book (to actually find what I want to do) slow and cumbersome.

If I'm not going to be doing a quest, there's no reason for it to be in my quest log. If I say no, I mean no. If you're going to give me a choice, don't second guess it. It's damn annoying.

It is an opportunity that has been offered to your character, and in the game like in real life lots of things come up that you do or do not want anything to do with.

Then I should be free to pass up said opportunities, not be incessantly reminded every time my quest log is opened.

Wanting the ability to abandon quests at the cost of a real lot of programming that gums up the working of the game

As previously mentioned, many quests already have the ability to fail, they just lack the option for some characters to do it properly, and it railroads people into finishing quests a specific way because it lacks many reasonable choices that should be available (and of those options it does have, they all lead to the same result anyway; yes = yes I'll do it, no = yes I'll do it later).

it's very clear that the gimping and "rule making" each of us practices in the leveling of our characters in this game superceeds logic or rational thought.

Yes, because why should we worry about properly role-playing in a role-playing game? We should all be meta-gaming and playing OOC because they couldn't properly design the quest system.

THe only point I've felt "railroaded" was in that I apparently *had* to go along with Brynjolf's initial bit of thieve's guild skulduggery in order to get down to the Ragged Flagon and pursue the main storyline quest. There may have been some other option but I don't see how it would've been doable without joining the thieves' guild if you weren't willing to go online and look up spoilers to complete the quest.

I had the same issue with The College of Winterhold. Without using out-of-game knowledge, it's almost impossible to complete the MQ without joining them.

[Pat RiMsey]

Meh, I got a free sword that's good against the undead, Dawnbreaker, and the soul trapping Mace of Malog Bal. Plus there's the giant black soul gem in the Star of Azura.

Mehrunes Razor has helped me on occassion as well.

You can be a good character, but why not use what you can to help you in your quest against evil?



A side note: The anyone else find soul trapping weapons redundant? You need to use the weapon to fill your soul gems, but you need the soul gems to then recharge the weapon.

[Trevor Bostwick]

The beauty of Skyrim is that there are no restrictions on how many quests you can have in your log.

Now, if you are truly role playing, you can work in the "offered quests" as opportunities you would rather pass. Look at it as if a vacuum sales guy comes to your door and promises that the goods he is selling are better than sliced bread. You can then decide to buy or to decline. The offer is logged in your brain though. You might think about it for a few days, play with the phone number he left and then decide it's a waste of money and move on.

Now, would you or your character follow through on every offer you receive? No, but it's still there, in the back of your mind... Think about it.

[Elizabeth Falvey]

Meh, I got a free sword that's good against the undead, Dawnbreaker, and the soul trapping Mace of Malog Bal. Plus there's the giant black soul gem in the Star of Azura.

Mehrunes Razor has helped me on occassion as well.

You can be a good character, but why not use what you can to help you in your quest against evil?

Because getting those weapons requires doing evil acts, making you evil in the process. Dawnbreaker is probably the only exception to that list, as Meridia is considered to be more on the "good" side (and she asks you to clear out a temple full of undead being lead by a necromancer). Still, that doesn't excuse being railroaded. Don't restrict viable choices because you're just trying to be "edgy" and "dark". It's patronizing and unnecessarily breaks role-play.

Now, if you are truly role playing, you can work in the "offered quests" as opportunities you would rather pass. Look at it as if a vacuum sales guy comes to your door and promises that the goods he is selling are better than sliced bread. You can then decide to buy or to decline. The offer is logged in your brain though. You might think about it for a few days, play with the phone number he left and then decide it's a waste of money and move on.

Now, would you or your character follow through on every offer you receive? No, but it's still there, in the back of your mind... Think about it.

Don't know about you, but if someone I don't know or care about came around and offered me something I didn't want, it'd be out of my mind the second they left. I wouldn't be reminded of it every time I did a mental checklist of things I actually cared about doing.

[Dylan Markese]

There may have been some other option but I don't see how it would've been doable without joining the thieves' guild if you weren't willing to go online and look up spoilers to complete the quest.

The arrow to find Esburn will lead you to him with or without Bryn if you check the quest... if you're the sort willing to do so, I suppose. Lots of people find this to also be an unforgiveable cheat in the game.
Also, if you don't want to participate then go stand behind Medessi's stand and "flub" the lockpick by not hiding. It wont close the possibility of the chain and will still set you in place to ask about Esburn.

[Alberto Aguilera]

While I wouldn't mind getting the option to decline some quests, I'm sure that once in a while the dev team reads the forums and says to themselves. "Are you [censored] serious? You're crying about THIS now?"

That's meant for way more posts than this one. Especially since, like I said, I kinda agree with the OP.

[Ashley Tamen]

The Daedric quests are railroaded? Since when? They're the ones with the freedom to choose at the end, you can often tell the daedra to get stuffed. Also defeating a Daedra is impossible by lore, unless it manifests into Mundas.

Okay, how about that house in Markarth? Once you go in there and find the shrine, there is NO way to exit the building without slaying that Vigil of Stendarr?

[priscillaaa]

Because getting those weapons requires doing evil acts, making you evil in the process. Dawnbreaker is probably the only exception to that list, as Meridia is considered to be more on the "good" side (and she asks you to clear out a temple full of undead being lead by a necromancer). Still, that doesn't excuse being railroaded. Don't restrict viable choices because you're just trying to be "edgy" and "dark". It's patronizing and unnecessarily breaks role-play.

Well, your mind is pretty much set and you are getting all out of sorts over a game. Maybe you should use your creativity to write a book, then you can do things exactly like you want to. I'm not being sarcastic btw. I mean it. These games usually fuel my creativity. So, don't let a quest in your log get you all upset. Just look at the good parts and try to have some fun.

[George PUluse]

Okay, how about that house in Markarth? Once you go in there and find the shrine, there is NO way to exit the building without slaying that Vigil of Stendarr?

I don't have a problem with that, since he attacks you. That's his choice, and you merely defend yourself.

My problem with Bla's quest comes from how you can tell him to get stuffed, warn the Priest of Bal's trick, and if you enter the house again, you're still expected to follow Bal's command as if you had praised him and tricked the Priest. Jaree-Ra in Solitude has a similar problem. You can threaten to turn him into the guards, but you can't actually tell the guards anything.

Well, your mind is pretty much set and you are getting all out of sorts over a game. Maybe you should use your creativity to write a book, then you can do things exactly like you want to. I'm not being sarcastic btw. I mean it. The games usually fuel my creativity. So, don't let a quest in your log get you all upset. Just look at the good parts and try to have some fun.

I'm not upset, it's just frustrating. Obvious choices not given, and patronizing options (just what is the point in having the option to say no if it just leads to the same result as saying yes?), makes it feel like it's not about role-playing and constantly get in the way of it, even though this is supposed to be a role-playing game. If it was focused on role-playing, then certain role-play choices (eg, good-aligned ones) wouldn't be so hard to come by, particularly when they're obvious to do. Luckily I predict many mods to fix these problems, but still, it's a bad design on Beth's part that should've been recognized early on.

[Heather M]

It's a video game for gods sake. Who has a conscience while playing a video game? Just about every video game out there has you going on killing sprees. Whether they're good guys or bad guys, it's still murder.

[Victor Oropeza]

It's a video game for gods sake. Who has a conscience while playing a video game? Just about every video game out there has you going on killing sprees. Whether they're good guys or bad guys, it's still murder.

[{Richies Mommy}]

Oops. Sorry for the double post.

[Catharine Krupinski]

I agre 100%. Most quests should either be declinable, or offer multiple ways to complete them like in New Vegas.

Why can't I help Mjoll eliminate the Thieves Guild and Maven Blackbriar?!?

AGREED!! Well on the killing of the Thieves Guild AND Maven.... most definately yes

[Abel Vazquez]

Well, the game offers alternatives in some instances, such as the Assassin's Guild (which also gets you access to their Word of Power wall), but yes, there are certainly more options for the morally flexible player: thief, assassin and daedric quests, for one, plus Companions for those who don't object to being a werewolf.

Options I'd have liked would include:

Turning Ja'ree into the guards
Bring down the thieves guild and/or Blackbriar family
Bring down the Silverbloods
Make werewolf optional (just as you had the opportunity to become a vampire in the Oblivion DB questline, but it wasn't compulsary)
Allow the Dragoborn to visit the mages without having to join (giving access to the amulet quest and books)

However, I suspect the devs ran out of time and some content was cut (or not implemented) which might explain lack of options in some cases and the short questlines for the guilds.

I think people are bent out of shape about the daedric quests because it's easy to blunder into them unwittingly. In Oblivion, you had to seek out the shrine and leave an offering, so if you didn't want to do them, you just didn't take the necessary actions. Several can be resolved without evil actions, however. Azura and Meridia are generally non-evil. Mehrunes Dagon and the Dawnstar quests can be done by not killing the characters concerned; likewise, not killing Clavicus' dog is more of a good option. As for Marketh crypt quest, you can kill the cannibal and end it that way. I didn't have any problems doing these quests on a more morally upright character.

[Sammygirl500]

THe only point I've felt "railroaded" was in that I apparently *had* to go along with Brynjolf's initial bit of thieve's guild skulduggery in order to get down to the Ragged Flagon and pursue the main storyline quest. There may have been some other option but I don't see how it would've been doable without joining the thieves' guild if you weren't willing to go online and look up spoilers to complete the quest.

I was confused the first time I read about this.

I never joined the TG with my first charicter, just followed the quest marker, and when I saw Dirgethere that I had to get information from to find Esbern, I just brawled it out of him. I had no prior knoledge to this at all.

Aswell, about the daedric articacts, heres something to remember.

These ancient artifacts are some of the most powerful weapons and items in Tamriel. Imagine what would happen if someone with evil intentions got thier hands on it? Now, if it was, instead, someone like yourself, sworn only to do good, then is the world not safer? With Molags mace, you are stopping a potential mass murder from begining his attack. You can also say that about all of the rest of the artifacts, like the ebony blade for example, it is only just sitting in the jarls cellar, and his son could of told anyone. You've svcked the fire dry before it even got itself going. Or is your so-called "good guy" going to wait for disaster to strike before you bother to take action?

[STEVI INQUE]

THe only point I've felt "railroaded" was in that I apparently *had* to go along with Brynjolf's initial bit of thieve's guild skulduggery in order to get down to the Ragged Flagon and pursue the main storyline quest. There may have been some other option but I don't see how it would've been doable without joining the thieves' guild if you weren't willing to go online and look up spoilers to complete the quest.

You tell Brynjolf "no thanks" and keep asking around, you'll find other people who point you to the Ratway and can find Esbern yourself. There's no forced joining of the TG.

I don't know why people get bent out of shape about ignoring quest prompts in their journal. Another one of those mysteries I'm left with from reading threads here.

[Christina Trayler]

I think it'd be more accurate to say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions.", lol. I think the people who have the most problem with this game are those trying to impose nonsensical D & D moral absolutes on Skyrim. I really hate the D & D alignment system. It requires brainless gameplay.

Yeah the daedra are explained as reflections of the baser nature of humanity, they are integral to the world. You can suppress certain urges but no one can banish them completely and there is a question if you do more harm than good by trying. The aedra also seem just as capricious and screwed up to me sometimes. Playing in shades of grey suits me wonderfully. Even paladins should be forced to face their humanity and wrestle with temptations. *hugs TES*

[BethanyRhain]

Bethesda's Biggest Sin is the plethora of undroppable quest items filling up your inventory. Ok, I can see it for a quest here or there, but there are several quests where you think, Ok, I'll run this quest just to get rid of the inventory item, but not finish the questline. Then, what happens is you finish that quest and get a *second* undroppable quest item. Really? That just svcks when that happens.

Example: Main quests makes you go talk to that crazy mage who thinks the Heart of Lorkhan is in that dwemer puzzle box in the glacial cave he's in. To finish the main quest, you must talk to him and get a lexicon cube. You go to Blackreach, get the cube inscribed, and pick up the Elder Scroll. You use the Elder Scroll to do what you need to in the main quest, then go back and talk to the mage, hoping you can get rid of the cube and the scroll. Low and behold, he immediately puts a blood-collector item in your inventory that you also can't drop. Great. . .

The OP has a point about being railroaded into quests. I mean, sure you don't *have* to complete them, *sometimes*. There's an, let's call an "encounter" in Markarth. You talk to a guy who asks you to investigate an abandoned house. Ok, sounds like it might be somewhat dangerous, but you get inside the house, and you are put in a situation where you cannot leave the house unless you kill this guy. He's not an evil guy. You just have to kill him or you'll never leave the house. There's no alternative possible (at least, I looked long and hard for such an alternative and couldn't find one), so you are basically railroaded into murdering someone. Great design there Bethesda.

[Veronica Martinez]

You tell Brynjolf "no thanks" and keep asking around, you'll find other people who point you to the Ratway and can find Esbern yourself. There's no forced joining of the TG.

I don't know why people get bent out of shape about ignoring quest prompts in their journal. Another one of those mysteries I'm left with from reading threads here.

I didn't know that, but I found another way to get around this bit of crappy quest design: I just purposely screwed up his quest. I'm not thief, so I just bungled the theivery, got caught by the guard, paid my 4 gold fine, then talked to Brynjolf again, who then told me what I needed to know. Surprised this approach didn't occur to anyone else. I guess that, in most RPGs (and this is mostly true for quests in Skyrim too, but not this one), you can't "fail" a quest. You can't proceed until you complete it, but in this case, they let you actually fail the quest, but continue the main quest.

[Sammykins]

The OP has a point about being railroaded into quests. I mean, sure you don't *have* to complete them, *sometimes*. There's an, let's call an "encounter" in Markarth. You talk to a guy who asks you to investigate an abandoned house. Ok, sounds like it might be somewhat dangerous, but you get inside the house, and you are put in a situation where you cannot leave the house unless you kill this guy. He's not an evil guy. You just have to kill him or you'll never leave the house. There's no alternative possible (at least, I looked long and hard for such an alternative and couldn't find one), so you are basically railroaded into murdering someone. Great design there Bethesda.

I refused to kill him. He eventually attacks you.

[Eileen Müller]

It's also possible to steal Madesi's ring, put it back and then tell Bryn that you lost it. No fine or criminal record, no one gets hurt.
The next quest got me annoyed, though - roughing up or bullying three perfectly nice NPCs into giving up their money. On my first character I reverted to a previous save in order to avoid that one.

[Spencey!]

You want to help a blacksmith get a pet dog.
You are at this point locked in to serving an evil character. There is no turning back. You van either get the axe for Clavicus and restore him to full power, kill his dog and restore him to full power, or simply ignore it. Why would my good character aid an evil demon? Why is there no option to take the axe to the fires of Mordor and destroy it and strand Clavicus in the statue for ever and all of eternity. Is Bethesda that hell-bent on proving how "strong" the Daedra are? That they will let it ruin our playthrough? It's a terrible design choice.

There is another way you can refuse him and get the mask instead of the stupid rueful axe..

[Jason King]

Yeah, the one's with Mehrunes Razor and the Mace of Molag Bal make me feel bad because I end up killing someone I don't want to kill. Some of them, like the Sanguine Rose and Wabbajack missions, I enjoy quite a bit.