Absolutely LOVE this thread.. So full of information, mostly stuff I've already read, and probably forgot xD.

I'm for the Empire, always have been. They did their best to fight off the Dominion, and in a way succeeded, even if just temporarily. I also believe they will again go to war with them, when the time is right. Doesn't exactly help that Ulfric started a Civil War at the worst possible time.

They overwhelmed the daedra during the oblivion crisis with their vast numbers. If they could defeat the daedra, I am sure they wouldn't have any problems with the Thalmor.

Not true, the Thalmor were also very capable of defeating the Daedra. The Thalmor are High Elves who wield Magic and Sword and are very deadly enemies to all.

Can someone tell me all the reasons Ulfric started this Civil War?

I'm of the belief at this point, that it was the design of the Aldmeri Dominion. They want anything that will weaken the Empire to happen, and this is definitely one of those things. I wouldn't be surprised if they planned on attacking following the conclusion of the Civil War, when Skyrim is at it's weakest.

A good read and way to put the information into context.

Personally I hope we get more information about the Empire, Dominion and Stormcloaks in the coming DLCs, it is a most interesting topic.

Ulfric used to fight for the Imperial Legion, ad when the Forsworn invaded the city of Markarth not long after the White-Gold Concordat, Ulfric accepted the offer from the Jarl to help them in exchange for Ulfric's Militia being allowed to worship Talos. The Thalmor found out and Ulfric was arrested. He then decided to stand for Skyrim and challenge Torygg's right to rule.

Edit: Researching the void nights now.

That is a simple, yet incredibly complicated answer and the issue of much debate. There really isn't any definitive answer to be had, and you will get a damning or flattering reason based on who you ask. Imperials will tell you that he is simply a short sighted self-serving manipulator who only seeks to claim the throne of High King, while Stormcloaks will tell you he is a freedom fighter who seeks to liberate Skyrim from an Empire they see as weak puppets of the Thalmor who no longer deserve Skyrim's loyalty.


I'm not sure I would go as far to say they overwhelmed the Dedra with sheer numbers, as the Dadra are not only immortal but also infinite in number. It is likely however that their numbers did play a role in absorbing attrition based damage that allowed them to bounce right back from the invasion in a much better state than any other province. Most historians attribute the leadership of the An-xilee as the primary factor in the Argonians success, however the Empire did have at least one legion in Black Marsh during the invasion, but in truth I know very little of this time in Black Marsh.

Very true. To be honest the truth probably lies in between these two extremes. There is no doubt in the actual course of events, all sides seem to agree on that regard. The problem lies in people's views on the causes.

I honestly believe that the Empire never truly intended to enforce the WGC's terms with regard to Talos. As long as people kept it on the downlow I think the Empire was willing to ignore it. At the same time I think the Empire made a dumb move in using Ulfric like that so soon after the end of the war.They had to have realized what would come from it. They knew the Thalmor would be watching. Ulfric is legitimately upset at the Empire for what they did. In the end both sides are at fault but all they do is blame the other.

That being said I don't believe that the Thalmor started or urged the starting of the Stormcloaks. I believe that the rebellion was a natural outgrowth of Ulfric and the Nord's anger. Once the seeds of the revolt were sown I doubt that the Thalmor were slow in taking advantage of this. They may not have started the rebellion but the Thalmor have certainly inflamed it.

Ulfric started the war because Talos worship was banned by the Thalmor and they Thalmor did this to get ulfric going. They knew that he wasa very faithful follower of talos as is many nords in skyrim so they made the empire go into skyrim to quell the rebellion because skyrim is part of the empire. The Thalmor however would not attack skryim directly as they'd need to pass through cryodiil who would fight them and if the Thalmor defeated the empire by the time they get to Skyrim their forces would be slaughtered. That is why they are currently finding devious ways to strengthen their cause. This is why you find Thalmor in almost any area of power i.e. college of winterhold. Sneaky elves....

Oh wow, major demoralisation. I just finished a large bit about the birth of the Stormcloaks but when i hit delete to correct a spelling mistake, it backpaged and took me to the main forum's page, erasing everything. To make maters worse i further erased the auto-save content when i typed this... At least I can refind the majority of my lore sources easier the 2nd time around..but still..

I hope we get to explore the Thalmor more in the future. But they have much darker motives than control they wish to shatter out world to escape their physical prison. The Mundas they view as their prison and they wish to rise above this cursed world and that is how they see it.

OP you did a great job in organizing and restricting your thread to the most important parts.

One thing I would like to point out is that the entirety of Vvardenfell island is not destroyed. There is a huge crevice where they mountain blew up and water gushed into that crevice. Now the water that surround that island is boiling hot and it was renamed the Scathing Bay, that tidbit of information is in the two Elder Scrolls book The Infernal City and Lord of Souls.

^ The huge crevice also includes the crater from the impact if the moon Baar Dau, also known as the ministry of truth. The bay is where the city of Vivec once stood and extends to where the mountain was.

Yes, so you're basically of the same belief as me. The Thalmor want this to happen and are possibly somewhat behind it.

So that's where goldbrand went...

Goldbrand was apparently wielded by Titus Mede II at one time.

He stole it from my hiding spot!


Admittedly sources do say it was only a rumor, but I say to hell with a rumor, it was too cool to be left out!

It's not that it was a rumour, it's more that people saw him with it, but the officials in the Imperial City refused to confirm or deny that he wielded Goldbrand.

Elven Princess, thank you so much for taking the time to write all this. What a great read!

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your Goldbrand. (I still have mine)

How did you manage to hide it from the Emperor?!

Very good read OP, thank you.

Awesome stuff! I've looked so hard for more details on the great war but i haven't been able to find any. What sources did you use and find?

Very good thread, keep up the work! =)

Do keep in mind that the altmer didn't come out clean from the oblivion crisis either.

As noted in "The Rising Threat", they had pretty much taken a last stand inside Crystal-Like-Law tower. And the tower was destroyed.


How they managed to turn things around in about 20 years and the empire couldn't do it in 150 is beyond me.

Most of the details on the actions during The Great War came from the book written by Legate Justianus Quintius entitled "The Great War". It gives many more details than I could, but much also came from dialogue and journals in Skyrim, particularly the Blades and the Thalmor Embassy.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War

Well remember that it took the Thalmor nearly 20 years after the end of the Oblivion Crisis to take full control of Summerset Isle and then an additional 70 before they returned to the world. They had plenty of time to rebuild. Likewise the Empire was doing fine under Ocato and then under Mede. The Empire got the way it is because they underestimated the Thalmor before the Great War.