Tullius says a lot of things. When I first went to Solitude he told his 2nd that if Balgruuf wouldnt let imperial troops in then he would let Ulfric burn down Whiterun. Then 2 seconds later he told his 2nd to inform Balgruuf about Ulfrics plans and embellish it if need be to get Balgruf to come around. See he wouldnt know the truth if it bit him on the ass, and will spew falsehoods just to bluster.

When Tullius invaded Skyrim he played right into the Thalmor political games. See what I did there?

If both sides hated the Thalmor, why didn't they try to make some type of secret pact to work together to fight the Thalmor?

Me thinks it doesn't matter who will win the Civil War in Skyrim, in the end it will be Imperials vs Thalmor. Either the Imperials win over Skyrim and then focus on the dominion. Or Ulfric frees Skyrim, but then goes to Mede ( or whoever has the Throne...) and says something like " Ok guys, I gave you a beating. Now, Accept me as King of Skyrim and lets fight of those [censored] Thalmor...

You See, in the End, there will be a War against the Thalmor under Imperial lead, no matter what

But the Redguards were able to fight the Thalmor out of Hammerfell without backing of the Empire so would that mean the Dominion weren't good at fighting?. Also, General Tullius is right; the whole Civil War is just a distraction to make the Empire weaker. I'm glad I sided with the Empire even though I'm a Nord.

The Redguards only STALEMATED The Dominion becuase The Empire had already ass whoppoed most of the Dominions forces.

Even then it took them, the best warriors in all of Tamriel, 5 years to do it.

If he knew it made the empire weaker then why did he do it?

Ulfirc started it and is too blind to see its effects, Tullis/The Empire/Mede are forced to respond.

Ulfric caused an internal rebellion. He didnt even secede from the empire, he just reorganized the internal government of skyrim. What forced Tullius to get involved? Did the Thalmor tell him he needed to do something?

The Empire had to intervene. Without Skyrim the Empire would not be able to fight the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks are a detriment to the impending war on the Thalmor.

I have seen no indication that Skyrim was going to refuse to help with the Thalmor.

That may be true. But if Skyrim is lost the Empire will be a lot more weaker than it already was.

You have seen no evidence that they wold help eaither.

Considering all the "THE EMPRIE svckS LETS THORW EM OUT" trash the stoarmcloaks keep spouting

You are in denial if you think there is no evidence they would help. The big deal with the stormcloaks is that the empire is being too nice to the Thalmor.

Is there any evidence that Skyrim is seceding? I mean aside from wanting to run their own country?

If anything the empire weakened themselves by alienating the Nords. How much help do you think Skyrim will be if they are not allowed to run their own country? I certainly wouldnt be a gung ho soldier if I knew Tullius had killed my family.

Did you actually play the Stormcloak side and listen to what he says? He knows the Thalmor will see it as an opportune moment to attack and thus he wishes Skyrim to be prepared for the inevitable invasion. He is not just preparing to fight the Thalmor, but also defending Skyrim when the Thalmor invade. Look at this link and skip to 14:55http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfJzAzpiPlU . Honestly, I wonder if any of the Empire lovers actually played the Stormcloak campaign and not just immediately assume "ULFRIC IZ A RAZIST NAZI1!1!11!!!1"

Exactly he wishes SKYRIM to be preapired not The Empire.

I played both sides. And I do find it hard to actually support a side. However while Ulfric may be ready to defend skyrim from those pointy eared bastards. It may not be enough. From what I understand the thalmor were abled to sneak past the heavily fortified imperial border in Valenwood/Cyrrodil and attacked leyawin. What i'm saying is that a divided countries of men won't do good agains a powerfull military such as the thalmor. They either need to developed a strong coalition which is pretty hard to or stay united under one banner and hope this time the thalmor won't be as lucky. Maybe to peacefully solve this issue Titus Mede should of have peace talks with ulfric and let him rule skyrim as a mostly independent province like Morrowind was. Then again that Talos thing could of prevented that from happening as well as the possibilty of the aldmeri Dominion interfering. Well lets see what will happened in future games,

If the Thalmor were so powerful, why does the dossier state they wish to AVOID a Stormcloak victory? If the Stormcloaks resulted in a weakened Skyrim and the Thalmor are so powerful, why don't they wish for a Stormcloak victory? If they are so mighty, they wouldn't care for a Stormcloak victory and can thus trample Skyrim yet the Thalmor don't want Stormcloaks to win. Why is this? I believe it because the Thalmor aren't the military might right now as people think of them. The Thalmor rely on espionage and subterfuge to get what they want, meaning the Empire could be more dangerous than the Stormcloaks since Stormcloaks wouldn't allow Thalmor to spy on their strengths and weaknesses which is what the Thalmor are doing with the Empire.

You see they want the war to continue. If the stormcloaks win they will have to deal with another army to conquer than with the empire. if the empire wins then they will still control Skyrim and won't be more weaken. So while the thalmor can still have a good chance of dominating Tamriel either way it will be easier to have the war going.

I so far have taken no side.... well, I'm leaning Ulfric. The more I see the more I'm leaning. Grey-Manes.... "I'll get your brother released without bloodshed. You stay home"... whoops. My sword just slipped and cut that knife-eared rat bastard's head right off. Looks like I've got to do this the hard way. Get back to Whiterun... first guard says "I hear you're the one who gave the Thalmor a black eye. I like you." But after reading stuff about how much Tullius is in bed with the Thalmor it sickens me. Ulfric is the correct side. Tullius sounds like a passive-aggressive type. Ulfric wants to kick the Thalmor out of Skyrim. Not all Altmer support the Thalmor. Many I've run into consider them dangerous. Mede will be forced to have peace talks with Ulfric.

An autonomous Skyrim gives the Empire a place for a secret military buildup which is something that cannot be done in Cyrodiil with Thalmor agents running everywhere. If you think about post #43 about how divided countries of men won't do good against a powerful military like the Dominion because they were able to sneak past a heavily fortified Imperial border and attack Leyawin, you can draw a conclusion that since they were unified at the time, unification didn't help them much then either. Skyrim is much more defensible. We'll send those tropical namby pambies packing.

How? The Thalmor would have a hard time reaching Skyrim. They'd either have to march and army through Cyrodill or Hammerfall. That or sail around to reach skyrim. Likely harrased by Hammerfell and High Rock the whole way. If skyrm remains with the Empire then they can send reinforcements from both Cyrodill and High Rock. If Skyrim is independent, Ulfric may send his forces to fight the Thalmor but I doubt he'd just let the Empire march its armies into the kingdom.

No what that Thalmor want is continued Civli War as that weakens there enemies. They would prefer an independent Skyrim because two enemies with two agendas are easier to deal with then one big enemy. But a swift victory for the Stormcloaks won't weaken there enemies enough.

So your expecting years of timeline to be worked out an major world altering questlines beyond the main quest and the civil war. If you wait two hundred years in Morrowwind. Oblivion and Skyrim don't happen. So your entire logic is [censored]. Ulfric doesn't do anything either because there is a limit to how far things can go in a video game.

Where did you read this made up digest? Ulfric is actually listed in Thalmor records as an unwitting ally. The Tullius is required to play "nice" because there is a treaty and he has to enforce it until the Empire is ready for war again.

You make a good point. However to reply to your statement about a united force not doing any good either that's the point I am making. While a United force won't do much it is the best chance. Imagine the thalmor sneaking to the blackwood reagon in Cyrodil when the provinces were divided like in Skyrim then I am sure the thalmor would be close to dominating Tamriel by 4E 201.

oops my bad.....