But you weren't attacked in daggerfall you could walk around and they had several bloodlines why did that change in Morrowind?


Say for a moment your a vampire from outside Cyrodill. Your clan can blend into human society. It would be advantageous to make others believe that only the clan in Cyrodill. The first law of vamprie society would logically be. "DO NOT WRITE DOWN INFORMATION ABOUT OUR ABILIITES!" I'd certainly lie if I was the author.

And assume for a moment the manifesto was two centuries old by the time it was found in Deepscorn Hallow. In the four hundred years that followed from then to now is it not possible for other clans to make similar pacts to conceal there nature.

You have a point, but there is more to that. And if that were the case, wouldn't there be a book or character saying that? We can't say other vampires can do the same unless we have credible source.

Only when you fail at designing gameplay that supports lore.

Yes, and that's stupid. Just imagine future TES games now. According to lore, Elsweyr is inhabited by various sub-species of Khajiit and Valenwood has walking cities and a very peculiar race know as the Imga.

If Bethesda can't even get vampires right for Skyrim, how the hell are they supposed to implement those things?

I agree on this, i expected walking alongside the northern coast and have volkihar breaking through the ice to drag me down and butcher me. All i found was the same old oblivion vampires. And IMO the only reason is that BGS probably found a series of problems in implementing all that and decided for the shorter route (like in many things).

Because, they didn't have the technology at the time, really. You could also transform into a Werewolf/Wereboar right in the middle of town, and not only would the citizens keep walking around like nothing happened, the guards wouldn't even attack you until you killed someone. It was a limitation to the game technology at the time.

That's what i think happened. A clan made a pact with Sanguine similar to the one with Clavicus Vile. Like someone else said, they've been making Vampire clans mirror the politics of the region the game is based in. There might even be a "Civil War" going on with the Vampires themselves. The older, more powerful Volkihar, against the young upstarts, "Sanguinar Vampiris". If so, i smell a Vampire DLC.

You're making it seem as if Bethesda just completely ignored lore while making Skyrim. That simply is not true. And also, "can't even get vampires right"? The only time Skyrim vampire lore is mentioned in TES is in that one book (well, that's the only time I've ever seen it), so it is a very minuscule amount of lore in relation to Skyrim lore.

This. Hpw much fun would it be playing a character that has zero ability to interact with NPCs, and their primary method of hunting is to hide under frozen lakes and wait for someone to happen by? That would be really really boring.

Now, it would be kind of cool if there were NPC volkihar that would bust out of the ice at you, and could even infect you. Soon as that happened, the Cyrodiilic vampires would abduct you from your bed Dark Brotherhood style before you can turn. They'll turn you to one of their kind of vampires (a ritual where they cover you in leeches while feeding you their own blood), and maybe send you on some quests to wipe out more of the Volks.

Would sound reasonable. But they should at least back up the reason why the Cyrodilic vampires are in Skyrim. A ingame book or journal would suffice.


How did the vampires in Oblivion mirror politics? The only vampire we saw that matched that description was Janus Hassildor and Lord Lovidicus(Read his journal).Morrowind vampires were hardly involved in the Great Houses for the exception of the Quarra whos leader was once a member, and the Telvanni who accepts vampires. Other than that, they are shunned. Cyrodiilic vampires were suppose to be the "Sith" of the ES. Secret shadowy fraternity of manipulative and deceitful individuals trying to gain control for themselves, limiting their Order to a small number.

If Bethesda got it right, they should of at least added some political quests or maybe make a politcal centered DLC with the Thalmor. Have the Cyrodiilic vampires try to take out the remaining Volkihar while trying to secretly usurp the Thalmor from within the Empire's political circles.

How did the vampires in Oblivion mirror politics? The only vampire we saw that matched that description was Janus Hassildor and Lord Lovidicus(Read his journal)
Thanks to the pact they could attack their enemies openly without the repercussions. You could see Hassildor do this on the blood straved ones near his castle.

Morrowind vampires were hardly involved in the Great Houses for the exception of the Quarra whos leader was once a member, and the Telvanni who accepts vampires. Other than that, they are shunned.
There was three great houses on the island of Vvardenfell. They were always fighting with each other maybe not openly all the time but they fought. The three bloodlines mirrored the houses: Berne(Hlaalu), Aundae(Telvanni), and Quarra(Redoran). Those 3 clans fought each other all the time.

I don't think the Daggerfall vampires need any explaining because that setup was the most obvious.

You have to remember that the Volkihar example from Immortal Blood was taken from a book. It could be complete fiction and the Morvarth we see just assumed that identity from there. The effects from that book could also be replicated from three spells used simultaneously Waterbreathing, Levitate, and Passwall.

I do like Korbu's idea about a war going on. That would make for an excellent mod or dlc.

Yup.

Todd Howard said in an interview that they will change lore on a whim for gameplay purposes.

I can't remember the name of the video but it's on youtube. He's being interviewed by someone from an Aussie game magazine.

Okay, now I take your meaning. I thought you meant they had their own large political forces and etc.

Doesn't anyone else fell sorry for Morvarth ? He was forced to become the very thing he hated most!

Actually I do have one plausible theory.

The cyrodillic strain of vampire was successful enough to become dominant within Cyrodiil over the other clans, the lore itself makes that clear. It may be that in the intervening 200 years the Cyrodillic bloodline has enjoyed further dominance and spread across Tamriel.

This of course still fails to explain how being bitten by a Volakhir vampire (And they DO exist in skyrim as rare boss-level vampires) results in you getting the faux-cyrodillic version of the disease

Is it possible that the vampires in Skyrim are volkihar only in name? As we have seen from the Gray Prince, vampires are capable of traditional procreation. Perhaps the Volkihar and Cyrodiil vampires intermarried, thus creating a new strain of vampirism. Thus, they lost the ability to reach through ice, but gained the ability to intermingle with humans if well fed. That may also explain why the sunlight affects them differently. With the presence of Movarth, this could be a liable possibility, especially considering how few vampires there are. It may have only taken a couple of generations for the Volkihar strain to merge with the Cyrodiilic strain...granted, that doesn't explain the older Volkihar...Also, I don't think we have ever seen a child born a full vampire, have we? Perhaps it isn't possible...

That's a lot of supposition. We don't really know enough about how and why the strains came about before we can begin guessing at whether strains can be merged. Even asides from the logistics of "watering down" an entire strain (Humans intermingle between races but races persist, we havn't all been blended into a "generic" mixed race despite many hundreds of years of widespread travel and interracial marriage. The skyrim vampires seem to have been "blended out" in a mere 200 years)

Well, from what we do know of vampires, they were created by Molag Bal when he...did stuff...to a nord woman named Lmae Beolfag (not sure if I got the spelling right). If that story is credible, vampirism spread from a singular individual and then mutated. Furthermore, vampires are far fewer in number than mortal beings. That would make "watering down" much easier. In addition, many humans (in real life) tend to identify and mate more often with members of their own race (this is not always the case). This may or may not hold true for these two specific vampire clans. Another possibility is that, despite vampires being undead, they also appear to hold extremely strong ties to Daedra, perhaps even possibly being related to them. That said, the Cyrodiilic vampires MAY have gained their "human-like" adaptation from a pact with Clavicus Vile, which we know that at least one Volkihar clan has (had) ties with.

Maybe the vampires in Skyrim have in fact the same strain that the Dragonguard and Tsaeci supposedly had. Assuming, of course, that they were actually vampiric and their eyes and immortality weren't just characteristic of their races.

Yeah, procreation is possible as you said, but we only know of traditional procreation with a mortal and a vampire. But I am sure it's possible two vampires can procreate. A full blown vampire offspring is not entirely impossible, we just never heard of anything like it.

Bethesda sure left us in the dark, didn't they? But it raises question to see a Cyrodiilic vampire have sixual relations with the Volkihar. I mean they can't even stand vampires of other bloodlines in their own territory, rendering the prospect of sleeping with another vampire...an abominable act. But then again, they do have respects for other vampire clans as well. They are just more picky about whom controls what. So it is plausible, but improbable.

I believe the Tsaesci were only vampiric, but not actually vampires. Kind of like a vampire bat.

This.

Also, To the Abyss with thee!

Same reason any species replaces another, out-competition. The Volkihar have no ability to camoflage themselves like the Cyrodiilic vampires do. Hiding beneath the ice and ambushing people is great, if your prey is a band of hunter-gatherers, and likewise, the Cyrodiilic vampires' ability to blend into a crowd would be useless in a small close-knit tribe where everyone knows each other and distrusts outsiders. However, as Skyrim becomes more civilized, the hunting strategies of the Volks would become less effective, as people stay in one location longer, while the Cyrodiilic hunting method would become more effective, as people become more used to dealing with new people.

If I were writing the scenario I discussed above, I'd have this explained by whichever vampire is the leader of your particular cell.

After thinking about it quite a bit, i do believe there is actually two seperate Vampire Clans in Skyrim now. The "Sanguinare", which the player is able to become and is similar to Cyrodiil's Vampires. The other clan, is the "Volkihar" of lore. One way to be certain, is to spawn a "normal" Vampire Master along with a Volkihar Vampire, and see if they attack each other. If they do, then they're of opposing factions with a negative reaction modifier to each other, which would clearly indicate that they're two entirely different clans.
The "Sanguinare" can mostly be found in or near towns, while the "Volkihar" are found way out in the wilds.

One DLC/Mod idea, would be to make it to where the player can contract the strain of Vampirism that the Volkihar has, and gain a massively different kind of vampire playstyle. The Volkihar Vampires are not a "social" type of Vampire. They are very brutal and monstrous, and their abiliites reflect this. If the "Sanguinare" is similar to Cyrodiil's "Order, then the "Volkihar" are similar to Morrowind's "Quarra".

Baseline, the "Volkihar Vampiris" strain would have 100% Disease and Poison Resist, 50% increased damage/duration for Frost Breath/Ice Form shouts (Similar to "The Fire Within" from Paarthurnax) , 25% increased damage with Frost spells (Similar to the "Augmented Frost" perk), Water Breathing, and have Frost Resist. However, the "Volkihar Vampiris" strain is Weak to Fire, would actually cause you to take damage and burn in the sun at any Lvl of Vampirism (Which can be cut to 1/4 damage when wearing full robes with hood), and NPCs would almost always have a negative reaction to the PC. Guards will attack you on sight, while alot of "civilian" NPCs recieve a lowered disposition with you, and some are terrified of you (These can be overcome with Calm spells). However, you recieve a bonus to "Intimidation" checks during dialogue (Similar to the "Intimidation" perk in Speech). "Volkihar Vampiris" PCs are able to feed in combat through Vampire specific finishers, and become more powerful the more they feed. Every 3 NPCs killed with the "Feed Finisher" increase your Vampirism Level by 1, up to Lvl 4. You lose 1 Lvl of Vampirism for every 12 Hours you go without feeding.

At Lvl 1 Vampirism, you have 25% Resist Frost, 50% Weakness to Fire, the "Vampiric Drain" spell (Revamped for better mana-damage efficiency for both strains), a "Vampire Sight" Lesser Power, and the "Icy Touch" Greater Power that deals 25 Frost Damage while Paralyzing for 3 seconds.
At Lvl 2 Vampirism, you have 50% Resist Frost, 75% Weakness to Fire, an improved "Vampiric Drain" spell, +25% Health and Stamina Regeneration, and the "Fear Aura" Greater Power that functions like a "Cloak" spell for 120 seconds that causes all enemies 5+ levels below you to cower or run in terror from you for 30 seconds.
At Lvl 3 Vampirism, you have 75% Resist Frost, 100% Weakness to Fire, a further improved "Vampiric Drain" spell, -25% Damage Taken from Iron/Steel Weapons, and the "Icewalker" Power with a 5 minute cooldown, which allows you to create a solid Wall of Ice in front of you which enemies/arrows/spells cannot pass through, but you can. It lasts for 30 seconds.
At Lvl 4 Vampirism, you have 100% Resist Frost, 125% Weakness to Fire, a powerful "Vampiric Drain" spell, +35% Weapon Damage and the "Frost Spit" Power with a 3 minute cooldown, that "vomits" forth a freezing liquid that deals 10 Frost Damage per second for 5 seconds (Similar to the "Vomit" ability of the Afflicted), and sticks to the ground for 10 seconds, acting similar to a "Wall of Frost", dealing 10 Frost Damage per second that the enemy remains in it.

I remember mentioning something like that before the game was released. We have enough information to believe that it's possibly they went to Skyrim. Like I said, an ingame book would suffice. Immortal Blood says they are the only tribe in Cyrodiil, and that they wiped out everyone. Manifesto backs up that claim, but it also says that Cyrodiil became their stronghold in the Third Era. Meaning their creation preceded their arrival to the Imperial Province. So it's easy to say they wiped out the clans, took over and began expanding. Fourth Era comes along, they go to Skyrim to wipe out the Volkihar and to expand once more. They embed themselves in the political stations and etc. Solitude being the greatest Imperial influence in Skyrim.

And to mention that, there is one lady in Solitude who sends you to go kill vampires, Sybille Stentor. She remarks on how uncivilzed the vampires are, and that they have been recently attacking people nearby, so she sends you out to kill them. Janus Hassildor much?

The game race lists Sybille as a vampire/undead. UESP says mentions. While I do not really place all of my source-finding on UESP wiki, the official prima games guide even mentions such fact;

"Although she has served the Jarls of Solitude for over 20 years, Sybille looks no more than 18. Palace gossip has a multitude of theories for her unnatural youth. The one about her being a vampire may hold most credence. Her role as Court Wizard is a convenience."

While it is speculation, I may think she may be a Cyrodiilic vampire simply because she can blend in, she uses her title as wizard to make her youthful apperance seem "mundane"(Count Hassildor did the same). And she is in the Blue Palace, the seat of power of Imperial influence in Skyrim.

Pit a "Sanguinare" Master Vampire against a Volkihar Vampire, and the "Sanguinare" Master Vampire gets his ass beat, hard. Now pit a "Sanguinare" Master Vampire against a Volkihar Master Vampire, and it's no contest. The "Sanguinare" are in for a VERY hard time if they plan on trying to wipe out the Volkihar. From what it looks like, the Volkihar could easily wipe the "Sanguinare" out, but just don't care to. Probably due to the fact that the "Sanguinare" keep themselves in or near towns, while the Volkihar are way out in the wilderness. The Volkihar couldn't care less about "city life", while the "Sanguinare" don't care for living out in the boonies, so to speak.