"The Akiviri are killing everyone! Where art thou Serpentborn?"

Having some Stormcloaks telling the Imperials that you are not one of them would probably only arouse the Imperials suspicions.

Plus, one the one [censored] captain who ordered you beheaded doesn't really represent the whole empire - you can find corrupt [censored]s everywhere, and the Empire and the Stormcloaks are no exception (I'm looking at you, Silver-Bloods). I was pro-Stormcloak at first too, but after talking to all the citizens I could about the war, talking to all the jarls, and talking to both leaders, I slowly ended up changing my mind. Stormcloak towns tend to have a lot more corruption, poverty, racism , and general unpleasantness. Hell, the one Imperial town that ISN'T pleasant (Markarth) is that way because of stormcloaks (The Silver-blood family's little.. mafia)

Funny. Depending on how you look at it, the story either goes: Protector's of the empire vs racist bigot barbarians, or a gathering of patriots standing up for their culture and religion vs an evil empire.

In the end, I chose the Imperials because Ulfric started the war. For a good cause? Both sides are equally "justified" but the story changes depending on which you join. The opposing team is thirsty for bloodshed. Either way, you're always choosing the "let's defend for our country and start attacking only when attacked" side.

I say we put in our Signatures who we support and a small reason as to why. Then we can see who our allies are on the boards I am going to do that myself. EMPIRE!

Well I joined the Stormcloaks because my friend said they would lose the war based off the map so I was whatever I am going Stormcloaks to prove you wrong lol. But the other reason is it seems people of Skyrim support The Empire because its always been like that and they just seem afraid of change. The worst part of joining Stormcloaks is when you take Whiterun, the Original Jarl makes me feel so bad about what I did by helping the Stormcloaks take control of it. I never thought a video game character's disappoint in you could make you feel bad about the choice and I still feel bad about it even after making it like a week or so ago lol.

Sorry to anyone if that comment I made was taken the wrong way, it was a snide little jibe but it sounded more playful in my head at the time

The majority of Jarls that I've talked to always seem to answer the question whats your stance on the war, with my loyalty is to my people. Otherwise it seems the Jarls are split on what they think of Ulfric. Some think he started the rebellion as a power grab, others think his cause is just. It's probably just me but the majority of Nords you talk to outside of Whiterun and Solitude seem to have a very Pro Storm cloak stance, at least the extent that they believe Skyrim should self rule.

How do you come to the conclusion that we are afraid of change? That is ridiculous. Also I don't quite get how a particular side was supposed to win OR lose without the dragonborn's help. No, I was pro Stormcloak before the game came out but then once I met Hadvar and learned what a tremendous dike Ulfric was I knew what side to be on. Ulfric is a liar to his own people. His dossier is full of crap alone. He is using the banning of Talos as an excuse to send countless Nords to their deaths so that he may be High king. He claims he doesn't want that but even his right hand man Galmar says that he knows they will still vote for him. Upon those words Ulfric replies with basically "Yeah, I know". He also attacks other Jarls just because they haven't picked a side yet. "If they aren't with you they are against you". He doesn't care about Talos anymore OR Skyrim. He killed High King Torygg (a young man) who had no chance of defeating him just to make a point. He is a piece of trash and I gladly support the Empire. It's funny too because I was so SICK of Imperials thanks to Oblivion but I still supported them in Skyrim. They are just the lesser of two evils. What the Empire did had to be done in order to keep more men and women from being slaughtered at the hands of the Thalmor. They will strike back when the time is right.

Speaking of the Thalmor...is there any way to join them? I'm going to make a high elf pure mage character soon and it would be cool if we could.

Well, I support the Stormcloaks, but I don't want to put it in my signature just in case the Empire wins.

no... I wish they had the option for my Altmer mage that I created but nope.. Please Bethesda DLC! ;D

KillerGymSox - I just have to say that Talos was a Nord born in High Rock, if I remember right he actually inherited the Empire when it was Skyrim, Cryodill and High Rock, then he expanded. This Empire is not the same Empire that Tiber Septim created. Its an Empire that is willing to spill the blood of its people who then ban the one god the Nords would get riled up over. Its like some punk pushing you in the mud and then calling your dad funny names. Not to mention renounce and entire province and leave them to the wolves. Doesn't sound like any Empire I would want to be apart of


Could you elaborate on how Ulfric is a liar? He has been honest and fully admits some of the things he has done are less than honorable. But he is doing things the Nordic way. That's what I think most people here don't understand. Legate Rikki even respected Ulfric and his fight for Skyrim, She acknowledges him as a true Nord and wishes him well into Sovngarde. If an Imperial Nord as hard core as Rikki shows him that respect. What do you think the common Nord thinks of him?

Sorry but the only one insulting anyone here is you from what I can tell. The rest of us are having lore / RP / gameplay debates that we find fun (otherwise we would not even bother posting here). The fun of the game is in Imperials vs Stormcloaks, Saadia vs Kematu, Werewolf vs Hunters, Forsworn vs Nords, etc. That kind of thing where we have material for debate, and it's why Bethesda keeps things gray as much as possible (also for realism).

I don't know about other Imperial supporters but I certainly am not here to tell others how to play the game and what choices to make. If everyone was siding with Imperials/Saadia/x that would be quite boring wouldn't it, and we would not even have a civil war. There are people who join Dark Brotherhood, or the Thieves Guild. Or become a werewolf, and vampire. But you know what makes many Stormcloaks special? Their self-righteousness. DB members talk about how entertaining the quests are (or dull), how cool DB is, or whatever; Werewolves talk about how cool being a werewolf is, or how weak it is, or how strong it is. But Stormcloaks go on about stuff like how sacred to them is Talos and how sacred and important is the freedom to worship whomever you want (emphasize on whomever). And this is often #1 reason why they say that Empire is bad. Then during the storyline one finds out that Nords started religion ban first, and that there are some religions that to them were more equal than others. That is so amusing that really requires a thread on its own.



No one is saying differently. I am an Argonian, so not really someone from the Empire (and on emotional level wouldn't personally care if Skyrim is independent or not). I haven't met any Imperial yet here who thinks that the Empire is a rolemodel for divine kingdoms. I see people saying the Empire is *better* (same with Stormcloaks), except that from Stormcloaks I still haven't seen a valid reason what makes them better than the Empire. The "Skyrim is for Nords" is just silly reason especially in this thread; if Skyrim is for Nords why isn't the Reach for Forsworn dear Nords? That deserves a new thread.

Firstly, may I commend you on your grammatical correctness as well as your decent rhetoric? It's quite refreshing to see that there's still a few people in this world who can write well .

As for the content in your post, I concur with most of it. However, I don't agree when you suggest that Bethesda intended for the aforementioned discourse amongst its fanbase. It's a baseless argument, but how shrewd of you if this was to be true. . They poured in countless days of work into the skyrim project, and Todd Howard has always been about making a gameworld that is not only based on quantity, but with the best quality in EVERY aspect. They completed their task and shipped off skyrim to make millions. That's genius and that's what Bethesda planned on. As for all our discussions regarding morality in decision-making? Bah, they are probably as shocked as anyone...

I disagree. Morrowind was much the same, with lots of ambiguities being debated either way - what happened to the Dwemer, did the Tribunal murder Indoril Nerevar, etc. - and Skyrim, thematically, feels like a return to form. The amount of information we have to argue with and the consistency (and sometimes lack thereof) seem like deliberate worldbuilding to me, rather than fantastic accident.

You could assume that. However, youre creating your argument over circumstantial evidence. The fact of the matter is, Bethesda has more resources now than EVER before (i.e. more money, capital, competent programmers/screenwriters). Morrowind was going to be the last game for Bethesda - bet you didn't know that. Not many do, as Bethesda was about to liquidate and sell out. Morrowind had like 8 people on its team? I forget the technicalities, but the fact remains: Morrowind had less in the ways of writers, whereas skyrim naturally has more. Therefore, it is quite conceiveable that the writing for skyrim could have stirred such discourse with its fans, unintentionally.

OK, since Dahl quoted this post I have to reply even though I thought it's obvious why it's flawed.


But see, reading this post of yours, and posts of other Stormcloaks, I can't but have one word on my mind: hypocrisy.

After so many here attacked the Empire on the ground of religious freedom and "being able to worship anyone at all or none", you're saying that religions should be equal but there are religions that are more equal than others.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/all+animals+are+equal,+but+some+animals+are+more+equal+than+others


Thus another irony is that the Empire is more liberal (in terms of religious freedom) than the Nords - the Empire is neutral when it comes to the worship of Talos, they're simply forced to allow Thalmor to patrol the lands, but it is the Nords who actively oppress the members of the "old" religion, who banned the worship of the old gods.

People who use "freedom of religion" argument joined the wrong side, they should've went Empire.

I did not know that, no. It's conceivable that it occurred unintentionally, absolutely, I just don't think it did. YMMV, though.

Don't throw in the towel just yet . You could very well be correct. Neither of us know, nor will we ever know - or maybe? All I am saying is, we can't just assume to be true that they intended on this to happen, as my argument conflicts with that.

I really shouldn't have to come on here, though, and feel bad because other people are yelling at me, telling me to [censer] myself because of a roleplay. You want to talk hypocrisy? People who tell others its horrible to be on the Stormcloaks, but support a serial-killer cult.

My bad, let me go sell my $60 game that I bought with my hard earned money and purchase a noose with it. Because I roleplayed.

And my grammar is probably bad, it's 6 am here.

Nah, your grammar is fine

Nope, no towel-throwing, I just don't think we've got much evidence to discuss either way

Just so we are clear on this, you call people who post on the forum Stormcloaks? Very confusing. I trust you are aware of there being more than two sides to this. It's not all black and white.
You really want to include George Orwell in this? And you think that Orwell's criticism of Soviet Communism applies?
Skysky had a nice reply to you earlier on:
The Empire isn't responsible for signing a treaty that bans the worship of Talos?

Daw, thanks. I need bed, though