I have bed, but can't sleep. Need sleep

Which part of "more liberal" did you not get? And they were forced to agree on a gunpoint, which couldn't be said for Nords.


This is becoming pointless, you're no challenge or fun to reply to.


A short logical sequence:

Premise A: "Everyone should be allowed to worship whomever they want or no one at all." (real quote)
Premise B: "Forsworn are not allowed to worship their gods."
Conclusion: Orwellian "some religions are more equal than others".


And now you're asking me if Orwell's line applies. Of course it does. These things are called metaphors and anologies and whatever else. Abstraction cannot apply to a single real case, otherwise it would not be an abstraction.




That's not a hypocrisy, it's called preference.

It would be a hypocrisy if I said "I am against serial killer cults" and then joined or supported one.


People who join Stormcloaks because they like killing Imperials, because they have better-looking equipment, because they are roleplaying a bodyguard of Ulfric, or whatever other RP reason: none of these people are hypocrits. They choose a story and go with it, and that's all fine. Hypocrites are those who rage about freedom of the religion while Nords are pioneering it. That's the point of this thread.

Every side of any war are fighting for thri beliefs. freedom for their people. The stormcloaks are no different. It's not hypocrisy its wanting control.

Here is my two cents:

Before Ulfric did his thing, the Empire quietly allowed Skyrim to worship Talos. If you talk to Alvor, he tells you that no one gave a damned if you had a little shrine to Talos in your home. It was only when Ulfric came out, did his thing that the Empire was forced to obey the Concordant and supress it.

My charcter talked with a Thalmor Justicar (right before she killed him, of course) about why the Thalmor was in Skyrim. He said, "We're here to make sure the Empire is obeying the treaty laid down by their Elven masters."

Basically:

-Before Ulfric-
Empire: Hey, you can worship Talos if you want. Just do it privately so those damned Elves don't get up in your buisness.
Skyrim: Cool.

Ulfric: VIVI LA TALOS! VIVI LA SKYRIM!!

-After Ulfric-
Thalmor: Are you defying the terms laid out on the Concordant!?
Empire: MEEP!

Hmmm...come to think of it, the Empire is a shadow of its former self, it now lacks a backbone.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to side with the Nords on this one. They just want freedom to worship Talos as they please.

This is a game, and has been made so you can join each side or neither of them and feel good about it. You like the empire? good. Others like stormcloacks. You shouldn't consider people playing in a different way as you hypocrites, morons, or villains. It's a single player game and what others do in their games won't affect your game at all. Some of us aren't football fans and aren't used to such nonsensicall rivalry. You are scaring us

Bah. I chose Yes-Man and went my own way.

Oh, sorry. Wrong game. Seems to be the same sort of arguments though. Whether it's the Imperials versus the Stormcloaks, or those other Imperials against the NCR, people do love to take sides. It's fun to watch. And the best part is no one can pick a wrong side. It's all in the decision you want to make; every faction is equally glorious and despicable.

Me, I'll reserve my animosity for the ones in the background keeping the hostilities going. In Skyrim's case, the Thalmor. You can bet they have something planned for the Moot, no matter whose side the Dragonborn chose.

I sppose that I will eventually pick a side since I want to see what happens. But I dpn' t like either faction. I am playing my Wood Elf as very self suficient and self interested. Regardless of which faction I pick, my foes are the Thalmor. As the Dragonborn, I will defend Skyrim from the Thalmor personally.

This thread is reading like a bad Star Wars Forum. Except the Stormies are fighting for the Rebels and the seat of power is held by a female on the side of the Empire.

What's to understand about mass roundups and summary executions?

Just came online, this is a response to something on page one. Anyway, I don't know why you would think I was replying to you specifically. I didn't even notice if you had posted in the thread or not until you started talking to me. No, I meant to everyone in general who acts like I describe, trying to force others into playing differently, when most of those people themselves preach the "play however you want to play" and it does happen on these forums. That's more hypocritical than joining the Stormcloaks just to support their right to worship who they want. I may have misread the OP and a few others because I assumed they were putting people down for the way they play the game. like I said, shouldn't everyone get to play the way they want to play? If they want to rp as a character who is hypocritical, fine, let them.

My point is sometimes on these forums, and I'm not mentioning anyone specifically, I don't mean the OP of this thread or anyone else, I just mean that some people on these forums preach the whole "play how you want to play" thing and then try to change other people's gameplay standards to meet their own "approval" by criticizing them on their choice of faction or other gameplay element. I know. I've witnessed it. Beth put everything in the game to be used, not to put others down or call them out on their gameplay style.I don't think I was out of line at all for calling people like that idiots, and let me add "hypocrites" to that as well. I'm actually a very civil person, I don't insult every person on here who disagrees with me. I'm not a troll.

The only thing these posts do (other than promote pointless discussion about a fictional universe) is to show the Bethesda actually CAN write decent storylines.

RedScream - the storyline is certainly good, Markat-Cidhna storyline has been pretty great IMO, almost like a movie which says a lot.
The only aspect of the story that I don't like is Dovakhiin but I understand that turbo-egotrip storyline sells copies and Bethesda can't live on charity alone.

And what many don't mention - the humor in the game is pretty good too. That's also not an easy thing to achieve. The humor in Skyrim is 10x better than these (romantic and other) comedies in cinemas these days that more and more resort to toilet humor because they are totally out of ideas.


You missed the point of the thread and didn't read carefully as you stated already. I mentioned it before already: I don't mind someone joining DB or Thieves Guild or werewolves and vampires. Or heck even Stormcloacks. All these things exist so that players can choose and experience different things if they wish so.

But.

The thread is directed at those who take a moral highground and consider themselves self-righteous and on a crusade against the Empire that is evil because it does not allow "freedom of religion for all".

And then these people go and join those who pioneer the restriction of religion in Skyrim.



Then again, as you say, if they WANT to roleplay a hypocritical self-righteous preacher that's perfectly ok RP-wise and I've no objection.

I don't think you even understand your own thread. Honestly, neither does anyone else. And the Imperials are so much better?

I like the Imperials. They do the same thing, though.


^This. We shouldn't have to feel ashamed because we like to play. If you don't like Stormcloaks, thats fine, but when I have people telling me I'm racist over a pretend race, I'm a murderer, blah blah, I get pretty bugged.



I lol'd so hard


Well, you have a point. I figured the Stormcloaks would have done the same thing. When you're grouped with the guy who killed the king mistakenly, I understand. I dont like it, and maybe they should do their homework before trying to kill people they dont know. But yeah.

Yeah, they are. You can compare Imperial cities with Stormcloak ones. Imperial architecture and Stormcloak one. Imperial culture, and Stormcloak one. People in Imperial cities vs people in Stormcloak cities. Imperial literature and Stormcloak literature. Organization, strategy, tactics, politics.

You name it, they have it better. The only thing Stormcloaks do "better" is go berserk.



That's all from me. Most people choose sides based on emotions anyway, reason is pointless. I'm buying house in Markath, reminds me of Dwemer who worshipped reason and logic. Much better than those who abandon logic and reason for worship.

Whatever. I'll still swear loyalty to Ulfric. Death to the Empire.

Also the Dwemer were smart, but were cruel people. The way they treated the Falmer is pretty disgusting.

Sounds like personal preference. Civilization A is better than Civilization B. East vs. West kinda discussion. I'm not saying that you have to be a cultural relativist and go all "all cultures are equal but different", but surely you can understand that a lot of people might prefer architecture, literature, tactics etc. that is not Imperial?

This kind of threads make me love stormcloaks more and more, its like lobby, rainbows, puppys, ponys, politically correct, and rights of men in the midle ages.

Breaking news, ulfric stormcloak is homofobic, even tough his grandfather was bisixual, join the empire today and stop this injustice.

Amen to that.

yeah and the old gods were teh dragons of old....

I respected everything you said up until that point. That was the most ignorent thing I've read so far. So I guess America is better than Mexico? England's better than France?

You guys sit there and yell the racist word and say all that? Really? After the whole 'Hur Dur you guys are hypocrates'?

Ulfric killed the king because the king was pretty much set up as a puppet. Yes we get to see Ulfric as 'power hungry [censored]" but cmon hes in the process of rebuilding a country and he needs everyone on the same page doign the same stuff. Yes the nords are somewhat racists towards the elfs, play morrowind and see how the elfs treated nords, besides which i see the main reason why the dark elfs are being subjected to the slums is mostly outta their own doing in his eyes. Right to the nords this is a war for Skyrims freedom, and u hear constantly from the dark elfs.."why do i need to fight, this isnt my war etc tec" to which the nords are seeing them as lets say s ituation where a guy and his friends are being jumped by muggers who are tryign to kill them, the dark elfs are the "friends" who are just standing there minding thier won business and wont help u because 'hey they aint atking me, why should i fight?". thats seems to be their perspective on it.

also what it boils down to, is hey this is a country of mostly nords. Nords are powerful warriors and could more than hold their own due to the countrys location and terrain. IF they have a leader over them, that leader has to be STRONGER and more honorable than they are. I believe that the Thalmor was brilliant in that treaty because not only did it make the Empire abandon Hammerfalll, but also showed the Empire as weak. if u talk to any nord they really down upon "milk drinkers" and see that their sacrifise for the Empire was all for nothing because of a weak moment. to a nord if u gonna die, go out taking as many down with you. I see Ulfric actually making Skyrim strong in the future, but right now hes in the middle of a civil war with no way of knowing who the sideliners are gonna support which may come and bite him in the butt if he goes on atk and finds out a jarl decides he wants to side with Empire and Ulfric finds himself stuck between to armys......so yaa hes getting rid of all the unknowns as far as with his treatment with the Jarls.

*Ulfric. Yes I nerd raged.

thakjk u there good sir, i can only blame it on the beer lol.

I kill all Imperialist pig soldiers and Thalmor on sight...Die SCUM....Get out of my Country!!!! I will worship Talos if I d-mn well please.