Ulfric is prejudiced, his actions with the argonians proves that. However, the fact is, in the Elder Scrolls games, EVERYONE is racist. Seriously. You see it in Oblivion and every other game. It is rare to find someone who isn't prejudiced against at least one race. The Empire is racist as well. Singling out Ulfric is ridiculous, especially since he personally really does not say anything bad about any other races throughout the course of the game.


Seriously? Learn to read. I'll save you some time and explain what happened with Ulfric, which doesn't paint him in the best light but is based on actual facts:

Ulfric was captured during the Great War by the Thalmor. They tortured him. The Imperial City fell to the Thalmor, and several days later Ulfric broke under the torture and gave them information. They then lied and told him that the information they gave him led to the fall of the city. They used this fact to force him to give them information. Eventually he returned to Skyrim, told the Thalmor to shove it and has been working against them ever since. Ulfric not only has reasons on behalf of his people to hate the Thalmor, but PERSONAL reasons. He is not a saint, there are many issues with what he has done. But claiming he's an acting and working Thalmor agent is ridiculous. There is literally nothing in the game to indicate that this is true, the Thalmor themselves say in private documents that he hates them and is no longer of use to them.

As for whether or not the join the Stormcloaks, I say do it. You will find things about Ulfric you do not like, definitely. But all in all, that storyline is way more fun and Ulfric is a very interesting character. At the end of the storyline you'll be left looking forward to seeing how Ulfric's victory pans out. The Imperial storyline actually makes the game so much more boring. In my opinion, for the storyline to remain interesting, Ulfric needs to live, faults and all.

Yeah, because your original statement was soooooo well explained and rationalized, mine just pales in comparison.

And to answer your question about open racism from the higher-ups, no, there isn't any. The only real reference to any races is when Ulfric talks about taking the war to the elves, meaning the Thalmor. I suppose an elf could hear that and feel insulted, maybe. He also kicked the argonians out of his city, which is basically the only evidence of his racism (it's pretty damning evidence though). He also doesn't allow Khajiits in the city, but the fact is NO ONE does, on either side.

I don't find the stormcloak questline any more fun/interesting than the imperial one. I won't do either one.... I did one toon in each quest line to see.... and that's the end of it. Ick.

I believe the Argonians are kept outside of the city so that racism between the Dunmer and Argonians (who hate each other more than they hate the Nords) doesn't degenerate into violence.

This makes sense. Seeing as the Argonians took over Morrowind after the Red Mountain explosion they would indeed cause a lot of problems.

Mech I helped the Empire. I don't want to lead to a Dark Age in in Europe.

Yeah, It's easier to make sacrifices when you are not the one who suffer. And by his people, Ulfric means only Nords who share the same belief as him.

Good point, I didn't even think of that.


Considering the fact that Ulfric has been tortured at the hands of the Thalmor, I think he's made sacrifices and suffered. It doesn't excuse everything he's done, but Ulfric is not afraid to fight alongside his brothers and sisters in war. He left the teachings of the Greybeards specifically because he felt guilty that his fellow Nords were sacrificing themselves in the war while he was sitting on the mountain doing nothing. The fact that he has been so active in the various wars is one of the major reasons he has convinced so many to join him - because they believe that the Empire is weak and will not fight for them, but Ulfric Stormcloak will.

Stormtroopers! Love it. Yeah their quest line seemed more fun

Cheers

Ulfric tortured unarmed women and murdered reachman who had lawfully surrendered. He is genocidal bastard

Animal-worshiping savages. The Reachmen deserved to be slaughtered.

Just look up the Briarhearts. That's [censored] up.

Ulfric is a power-hungry bastard.

But that does not automatically make the rest of the Stormcloaks wrong. In fact, some Stormcloaks don't like him. Like that somethingsomething of Stuhn fellow.

I have a few problems with this thread.


Madanach seems pretty convinced the nords brutalized their kind. Not in defense of those Forsworn wackos, as I rather like the Stormcloaks more than them, but you can not say this above in such a fashion as if it being written by an Imperial scribe invalidates the entire thing.


Yeah. He doesn't have to figure out how to house and handle the refugee population. Because he's dead. We should really catch and bring to justice whoever did that, since it's a real shame someone killed him before he could really handle all that. >_>


Do ghettos sound racist to you?

Now, I do agree that people seem to take 'racism' and immediate think that he is trying to commit genocide on every race but the blonde, blue eyed master race, which is not true. However, actions do speak louder than words, and just because he is not going out of his way to hinder people, does not make him completely free of blame. I could come up with numerous real-world comparisons where national leaders themselves were not racist, but through lack of action racist government policies became a major issue with the body.


I see this arguement in favor of the Stormcloaks a lot, but I find it weird. If the combined might of the Imperial Legion (Drawing from MANY provinces, including Skyrim forces) could not beat the combined might of the Aldmeri Dominion, what makes people think that a single province could beat the combined might of the Aldmeri Dominion, drawing on their various provinces? The obvious answer would be 'Hammerfell', but the game makes efforts to explain that the Hammerfell forces did not have to fight the combined might of the Aldmeri - the Aldmeri were ground to dust themselves fighting the Imperials. As well, rogue Imperial elements aided Hammerfell.




My point is that Ulfric isn't that bad of a guy. I think he is actually pretty cool, as a person. I would SO do quests for him if he were just a normal quest giver or something. He is a pretty awful leader though. Ulfric is like Braveheart. He is a warrior and an inspiration to his people. However, he is not a governor. Those would be the Imperials. If you want stability, order, true equality, prosperity and a lasting 'Empire' (See what I did there?) then you side with the Imperials. If you want a warm fuzzy feeling, the idea that you are doing the 'right' thing, to fight for 'justice', and fighting against 'the machine' or 'stagnation', then you should side with Ulfric.

I do not mean to say either are bad things. Both have their place. I am saying Ulfric should not be a leader. Back to the Braveheart comparison, the man himself (EDIT:Braveheart, that is) said that he is just a fighter, not a law-maker or a penny-pincher or any other metaphor for a king or what have you. Paraphrased, of course.

Ulfric just wants a Nord only world, in a sense lol. He believes that true Skyrim belongs to the Nords because there ancestors and such found it, etc.

He's not a bad guy at all actually. I look up to the man and his vision. Part of it is clear... other part just pure dark.

Should be High King to be honest, he has the grits and just pure skill of being an actual ruler. Compared to Balgruuf.. hizah!

Huh? Where does it say that Ulfric responds to the Thalmor with violence? Last time I checked, he just refuses to acknowledge them.

The Dunmer moved into windhelm over 150 years before the game takes place. Torygg had nothing to do with it.


You seem to be arguing on the assumption that the thalmor will have the same force they did last time. This isn't the case.


That awful leader seems to have put down an uprising and inspired quite a few of his countrymen.

The imperials didn't uphold stability, prosperity, or order. See the last 200 years of Tamriel's history for all the evidence you need.(Basically several provinces were majorly affected by disasters and Mede did either nothing or bare minimum.)

The quote I was responding too about the Dunmer and the High King was talking about how Ulfric was having to deal with something the High King wouldn't handle. Your assertion only supports my claim that it is an invalid point for Ulfric to be complaining about.


Who says the Thalmor won't have the same force they did last time? I know a lot of Ulfric-supporters claiming that the Aldmeri will have the forces to overun the Empire, yet they can over run the Empire and not Skyrim? That was what I was wondering about. The Empire is far larger and has a vaster soldier-base than just lonesome Skyrim does, when the Empire went up with the Aldmeri.


I was under the impression the Empire did it's best, at the very least. A lot of disasters the Empire could not have done anything to avert (Such as the reason Elsweyr went over to the Aldmeri, or Red Mountain exploding.) However, everything in-game points to Imperial generals being rather well held together and tactically sound, even Mede himself with the retaking of the Imperial City, etc etc. Basically, I feel like there is a huge lack of evidence one way or the other. However, what little evidence there is in game I feel points towards the Empire being rather stable. The only detractor from that would be the fact that Thalmor run around everywhere. The Thalmor certainly did not do that before Ulfric started making a huge deal about the whole Talos thing and started an uprising, though. NPCs say as much in the game.

Guy says king of solitude is the one that made the notice that dunmer could settle in skyrim. You imply ulfric killed him. Torygg wasn't around then.


Mer breeding rates are much much slower than mankinds. Replenishing forces isn't an easy task for them. The people making that claim are imperials.


The empire had over 100 years to deal with the events in 4e43. 4e1 Black Marsh secedes from the empire. No real effort is made to reclaim it. Thalmor insurrection and succession was in 4e22. Valenwood was conquered in 4e29. No attempts to reclaim either province. 4e40 Red Year. Red Mountain erupts. Morrowind attacked by Argonians. No forces sent in to combat the argonians. Umbriel happens in 4e43. Leaving 128 years until the great war. 4e100 the khajiit are starting to be influenced heavily by thalmor. 4e115, the khajiit secede from the empire, ally with the thalmor. No attempt is made to retake Elswyr. 4e171 Great war occurs. All blades in thalmor controlled territory are killed. Thalmor overrun most of southern and western cyrodiil as well as southern hammerfell. Thalmor catch the empire by surprise, apparently no attempts at intel were ever made. Thalmor march their entire attack force(Save for the hammerfall detachment) to the imperial city, mede waits until city is surrounded before attempting to flee. The eighth legion is completely annihilated. 4e175 Mede gets lucky and the thalmor intelligence is tricked by Decianus's "invalids", and do not anticipate the third legion approaching to reinforce Mede's army. Battle of Red Ring. Naarifin is captured and presumably killed. The emperor signs a conditional surrender known as the Concordat of White-Gold Tower. The empire pays tribute to the thalmor, cede hammerfell territory, ban talos worship and disbands the blades(Not much of an impact there since they don't work for him). Hammerfell is no longer a province of the empire. 4e176 Ulfric retakes Markarth after being led to believe by the Jarl that they will be allowed to openly worship Talos if they do. Empire agrees to condition. Thalmor get upset at the empire. Empire backs out of the deal and has Ulfric imprisoned instead. 4e180 The Redguards drive the remaining thalmor force out of hammerfell, 2nd Stros M'kai treaty signed. 4e201 High King Torygg is defeated by Ulfric in a duel. Imperials attempt to arrest him, Stormcloak Rebellion starts full swing. The Dragonborn is taken into custody along with Ulfric and a small number of stormcloak soldiers.


The empire had plenty of time to prevent this entire situation and it did nothing. Not only that but the military was terribly weak at the time of the invasion and no intel was gathered on the thalmor movement at all. Mede manages to wipe out the entirety of the thalmor attack force and surrenders pissing off his two warrior nations in the process. This is VERY bad leadership.

Says the Imperial rag written to kiss Thalmor ass about why they allowed Talos worship in Markarth.

Ulfric isnt really complaining, its just the dark elfs aint worth his time. hes fighting a war for Skyrim and the dark elfs have refused to help or pick a side, why should he spend his resourses in wartime when the dark elfs are not participating or picking a side?

I agree that theres nothing to say that the Thalmor forces wont be as large or bigger.people talking about the thalmor not repoluating as fast as mortals is all because the thalmor kill quite a bit of thier offsprings that aint "pure" enuf, they change that tactic then they on smae footing as mortals. BUT seeing how during the rebellion QL, Ulfric had upsetted the Jarls that would be against him and for the empire, it wont take as long as people think for the nation to unite under a new high king and seeign how that right now the thalmor has to go thru other countrys to reach Skyrim OR go by sea. A stormcloak victory will lead to Skyrim atking the thalmor, not the other way around waiting for themselves to be atked. They would be heading straight to the very homeland of the thalmor. So on top of being on a moral high from just getting over the rebellion and Skyrim being freed after soo many years on top of being backed by the dragonborn, id dare yes that a stormcloak victory could withstand or beat a thalmor war.

True it is stable to a point, but this isnt about the Empire stability, its about all about he ending to the war. there were many letdowns to the Skyrim people in how the war was lost and it was the hammerfells and Skyrims who had to suffer. They just faught a war were thousands of thier sons and daughters bleed and died for the Empire on the battlefield and the Empire took the easy way out and surrendered. The nord expected the the empire to fight that bloody stalemate because something could have happened and if it didnt to them well they gave the Thalmor one helluva butchers bills. so not only have they lost thousands of sons and daughter to a country who in the end to them just gave up and didnt go out with a bang, but to top off the sacrifises they made, they get told that ya u bleed and faught for us ur ok to go back home but just to let ya know u cant pray anymore to talos a god u deeply respect. And if u say that the thalmor didnt start cracking down on people worshipping talos until ulfric made a big deal outta it....then why was the rebellion started when ulfric was tasked to reatke a city from the Forsworn in exchange for a protected and safe place to worship talos if their wasnt any persecutions going on.

Case in point, without Skyrim fighting people and silver ore....Empire falls apart. Why should any country want to be or need to be under a country that cant survive standing on its own feet and has to rely on other countrys for its power?

That "rag" is supported by other NPCs, including the Talos-worshipping Steward you bribe during the Stormcloak takeover of Markath. But let's conveniently forget minor details like that and pretend everybody who says Ulfric started a bloodbath is lying, because Ulfric hasn't proven time and time again to be a bloodthirsty bastard who kills anybody that isn't useful to him.

Just completed the Stormcloak side, and I'm surprised that Ulfric and his Stormcloaks still hadn't shown me their full depravity. Morally, Ulfric is on the level of the Dark Brotherhood, as far as I'm concerned. An evil faction dressed up in pretty rhetoric about freedom and with a ruthless political mind behind it. Well, freedom and strength, because the thing Ulfric and Galmar always come back to is how the Empire deserved to die for being weak, and that strength is the only standard by which the right of leadership should be judged. The Stormcloak faction is for liars, bigots, and sociopaths. Pretty funny of Bethesda to make them the most appealing choice for first-time players.

Changes after victory were also disappointing compared to Imperial side (which was already somewhat lacking). I took interest in how an Argonian became steward of Morthal but Tee-Rai only talked as if he were still in a mine... Really guys? You couldn't even switch up his dialogue? Was the replacement Jarl an afterthought?

Stormtroopers?



Ulfric isn't a WWI German General/Palpatine.

Tell you what: Remember the cartoons and movies X-Men ? If Magneto looks like a good guy to you, so will Ulfric.