[Sheeva]

Updated to 1.3 today and had this happen twice.

PC hit a black screen of death randomly with music looping followed by a complete lock-up. Resetting my computer didn't immediately fix the issue, either. I had to remove power from my computer for a good 10 minutes before my PC would load the OS without crashing

That's an overheating issue without question. Software issues do not require a cool down time for the PC to work again after a restart!

[Robert Bindley]

That's an overheating issue without question. Software issues do not require a cool down time for the PC to work again after a restart!

if you are going to use the words "without question" you need to be sure the same symptoms dont occur pre and post patch.
[unless of course you are saying patch 1.3 is overheating his gpu.]

software might not cool down,but it still has to reset/error check/resume etc etc
and btw,
gpu`s cool down a lot faster than you are aware of.
exit the game with nvidia inspector running and watch it happen.

[Ice Fire]

software might not cool down,but it still has to reset/error check/resume etc etc
and btw,

Restarting the PC does that without the user having to wait a couple of minutes after shut down.

gpu`s cool down a lot faster than you are aware of.
exit the game with nvidia inspector running and watch it happen.

The chip itself is not the only part of a graphics card that might overheat. There are other elements on the PCB that can cause the card to crash when they get to hot. I used an custom fan on my old 4850, the card died not so long after I installed the new fan because the new heat sink did not include elements on the PCB which the standard fan included with it's heat sink. And yes, I also had black screen issues, especially in Fallout 3 and NWN 2 (I already had those with the old fan btw). The GPU temps were lower than before with the new fan, yet the card still died because other elements overheated. Black screen issues are overheating issues in over 90% of the cases.

[KiiSsez jdgaf Benzler]

I used 3 different cards on this game

Zotac 560GTX 2GB game kept black screening at temps around 66c to 76c

PNY 430GT 1GB no problems played for days

MSI 560 GTX 1GB no problems still playing.

must be a chipset problem not the driver or the game

This problem also happened to me in batman arkham city , AC2 but was okay on crysis 2 only new games seemed to cause this error/crash.

And just beacuse its new dont mean its not faulty my zotac was 3 weeks old in a new pc 2 months old custom built.

But i admit until i dumped the zotac i blamed bethesda but i dont now i was a hardware problem.. my problem.
so i apologise.

remember everyones system is different..

[naana]

I also have the black screen crash issue.

My newer graphics card, a http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102921, black screens at random intervals (10 seconds to 10 hours) while running cool at 65C-75C.

My older graphics card, a Dell modded HD5770 1GB, does not suffer from this issue.

System specs:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+Studio+XPS+8100+Desktop+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i7+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1.5TB+Hard+Drive/1244502.p?skuId=1244502&id=1218240957609, Intel Core i7-860 CPU, 8GB RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703030 (The link is the 760W version)

The newer card has played WoW, Rift, Crysis, Bioshock 2, and dozens of other games for countless hours and never exhibited any problems at all. This is why I am hesitant to believe "it's my hardware" because Skyrim is the ONLY game that has caused my PC to crash in this manner. I have overcome other issues in other games but this type of crash, for my system at least, is unique to Skyrim.

I have tried many different drivers, including 11.5, 11.9, 11.10 and currently running Catalyst 11.11c.

I have been able to play without crashing by downclocking my GPU, in AMD Overdrive, from 800MHz to 500MHz as a temporary workaround.
I am a little disappointed that I have to do this in order to play, but I am glad that I am at least able to play it.

I plan to "step up" the GPU clock 50MHz at a time, until it starts crashing again, to find the sweet spot. Currently the performance is surprisingly good for only running my card at 60% of it's potential.

[Lori Joe]

I used 3 different cards on this game
Zotac 560GTX 2GB game kept black screening at temps around 66c to 76c
PNY 430GT 1GB no problems played for days
MSI 560 GTX 1GB no problems still playing.
must be a chipset problem not the driver or the game
Snip......
But i admit until i dumped the zotac i blamed bethesda but i dont now i was a hardware problem.. my problem.
so i apologise.

remember everyones system is different..

OK now i have to apologize also.....because i said ..."nobody that is complaining and Not listening to what they are being told, ever come back and says....OH wow i guess you were all right and it WAS my system". soo "I apologize"

Very nice of you to admit that. ...and then have to Say...Most people that refuse to listen to reason ever come back and say...guess it was my system....

[Inol Wakhid]

Turned out it was a combo problem....year old power supply coupled with a house that had old wiring.....brought about a black screen in only Oblivion...none of my other games did it....

To everyone that has Black screen problem....
What is the Output at the Plug...
Do you have a UPS that regulates the Output to computer...

How do you go about testing something like that? I don't have a UPS but I haven't had any other power-related issues although I am a little unsure of this PSU because this one is a refurb that was sent to me as a warranty replacement for one that exploded on me after a month of use.

[Ash]

How do you go about testing something like that? I don't have a UPS but I haven't had any other power-related issues although I am a little unsure of this PSU because this one is a refurb that was sent to me as a warranty replacement for one that exploded on me after a month of use.

Post removed...

Edit...I give up...If the person who i responded to wants help, PM(private message) me...i am done with jerks like the one above...

[Natasha Biss]

I have been able to play without crashing by downclocking my GPU, in AMD Overdrive, from 800MHz to 500MHz as a temporary workaround.
I am a little disappointed that I have to do this in order to play, but I am glad that I am at least able to play it.

Download MSI Afterburner and experiment a bit with the fan speed settings for your card. Increasing fan speed comes down to the same as decreasing clock speeds, just without the performance decrease.

Those are my fan settings with MSI Afterburner for my ocerclocked 5850 (this card had black screen and stability issues too till I changed the fan settings)
http://i40.tinypic.com/35b75mu.jpg

[Connie Thomas]

The things we do to get games to work!

[Epul Kedah]

Wow, the OP got alot more love from Bethesda than I did, that's for sure. I got an email back saying to switch the sound quality, which is essentially a big F you from Bethesda to me, and then a second asking me for my dxdiag, which I gladly gave, and then absolutely no reply. In fact, there has been no accountability from Bethesda anywhere at all about this issue that I have found. Even a "we acknowledge and understand the problem, and are working on a fix" would be fine by me, because then at least we would have some assurance that they understand exactly what the problem is. Instead, not one reply to the several different threads I posted about this issue by a moderator (since day one of the launch), and not even an acknowledgement that they understood what the problem actually is through email. Perhaps if they actually tested the product properly before release.... wait, I actually am asking too for too much on that one. #frustrated

I've tried almost everything the OP listed, and it doesn't matter if it's five minutes or five hours, the hard crash will occur. The last time it happened, I had to run recovery (thanks again for potentially damaging my almost brand new hardware) because after POST there would be no video out from my computer at all (yes, this was caused by the crash, and don't try to tell me it wasn't, because there are no problems with my hardware). I tested every pin of every power connection with a multimeter, and they are all just fine. My GPU (aside from this game trying to liquify it) is perfectly fine, runs any other game on the planet beautifully, and is running cool as ice (never gotten above 51C, so don't try to tell me that I'm overheating, unless you think that a GPU can overheat at 51, in which case I need zero input from you). I don't even really play the game anymore right now, and have shifted my focus to other things because I refuse to do any more harm to my computer until this is fixed. AMD just updated drivers again, let's give it a try and damage my hardware some more by testing these out and see if they work! (isn't it wonderful that that's the only way I can tell if the problem is fixed?)

I understand that we as PC users are the minority, but if you release a game for the PC at all, I believe that I have a reasonable expectation that it should work without damaging my $1100 machine. Saying "it's an Xbox port" while accurate, does not justify lack of customer support, and it certainly does not justify ignoring the problem completely. Forgive my frustration, but I've played every Elder Scrolls since Daggerfall, and I've had issues before (minor stuff) with other Bethesda games, but usually they are things that are fixable or at the very least non damaging to my computer. I've bought every product that Bethesda even attached their name to (except Brink, but Brink was horrible, can you really blame me?) for years, and am saddened by exactly how little they care when there actually is a problem.

system specs

Windows 7 64 bit
AMD Phenom 3.2 gHz 6 core processor
AMD Radeon 6870 GPU 1G RAM
8G RAM

Wasted another two minutes of my life posting about a problem that the devs won't even acknowledge.... *sigh*


/end rant

[Ella Loapaga]

I feel for you phoenix11, I really do. I had the black screen of death a heap when I started out too, I get it pretty rearly now using ENBSeries un-official patch, but still yeah having Bethesda release a hot-fix would be looooovely... But no, holidays soon, will have to wait till next year.

[Scarlet Devil]

probably, I'm hoping AMD might have delved into the issue though. Installed the preview 12.1 drivers, let's hope they did something to fix the problem. I know they've been working on optimizing for crossfire and 6000 series GPU's, so maybe they chanced onto something.

[Shannon Marie Jones]

Ah hope so, I've got an Nvidia card, seems to be happening to all sorts of hardware

[tegan fiamengo]

because after POST there would be no video out from my computer at all

it is not very likely that this is related to a software issue (maybe destroyed files on hdd). Although your temperatures seem very fine, try to clock down cpu, gpu and memory temporary and try skyrim again.

ps: could be any timing problem, sorry for bad english

[cheryl wright]

I had this hard crash numerous times and tried everything... now i've finally found a work around and haven't had a BSOD for at least 20-25 hours.

What i did was:

Downloaded MSI Afterburner and with it turned down memory clock from 1200mhz to 950mhz. It was really easy and fixed my BSOD issue.

I started getting CTD's instead, quite frequently but soon noticed that if i started a movie player (like vlc) and just paused the movie while playing skyrim my CTD's went from five in an hour to about one in five hours.

And finally ONE MONTH AFTER RELEASE... i can finally play the game... thanks to forum brainstormers and alot of trial and error.

Note: I have ATI radeon 5850... so I don't think MSI afterburner works for nvidia cards... however im sure nvidia ha some kind of equivalent.

[Natalie Harvey]

One last time... This goes especially to Gelaris, Camaro and all the other guys who see the problem in hardware setups. Changing your graphics card is changing the whole setup. So you finally achieved a setup, that doesn't have hard crashes as many other people do have to. To me, this is no proof for an driver or hardwareproblem. We have a software, which seems to be only running on some hardware setups. There are also many many other games, which are running on nearly every hardware setup. So here we are. I liked the example with the guy and the bloody knife a lot. This is exactly what I mean.

Following the arguments of the hardware-problem-faction: When we are talking about hardware issues, then people seem to be forced to change their hardware. This can't be the solution.

Otherwise - and here comes my opinion: Bethesda should do, what all the other developers did, make the software compatible with all those hardware setups and everybody is happy.

BUT, as there is an official thread of Bethesda, what they are working on, I don't want to be misunderstood. I am not grumbling at Bethesda, because all I know is, they are doing their work at the moment - without knowing if there will be success in this. But it can't be, that people try to tell us, our hardware is the problem.

[Kaley X]

But it can't be, that people try to tell us, our hardware is the problem.

if it is indeed a software problem, there isn't much you can do anyway but waiting for a fix. but there could be hardware issues manifesting only in a certain game under certain circumstances and ruling out possible errors is the best you can do. Having problem after post is definetly no software problem on bethesdas side. a driver problem is just as likely but saying the hardware is 100% working is a difficult task. even after long memory checks or monitoring temperature of components. so underclocking every component can rule out many errors. if you have done that i am sorry, i have no other advise.

[Laura]

What kind of irks me is I came in this thread trying to get new ideas, saying how I stressed tested my computer (the cpu, memory, and gpu) for like a combined 60+ hours and no errors. And all I get are people saying stress tests are completely pointless and its probably my hardware... And someone says "try underclocking" which I guess in their defense I forgot to mention in my post that I did try underclocking (that was a very stressful 4 hours... try lowest settings... crash, reboot... try other settings, crash, reboot... try standard settings again, crash, reboot... try lower, etc...). I know its not overheating because I got my stress tests to get things up to 75c+, skyrim crashes at like 45-50c normally.

So far everything is pointing at the drivers and/or skyrim (and unfortunately some people don't understand that the issue could be fixed at either end) and the problem with that is that could never get fixed. I heard rift is suffering from a similar issue and trion hasn't fixed it yet, not comforting.

[Lyd]

I'm running the 12.1 preview driver now - interestingly I've not experienced any BSODs in the game yet, yet I had one out of the blue while typing a post on this forum. Hm. Maybe we're barking up the wrong tree here after all.

EDIT: Disregard above, BSOD at the map again. Just a lucky run I guess.

[Javaun Thompson]

Notice my name mentioned ..but their seams to be a misunderstanding....

I have never ever had a problem with this Game. (15 hour +Stable)
I have NOT changed a thing on my computer.
I have a completely Stable Game. 100% (patch 1.2 gave me fits ..BUT I won.)

The only thing I have done is try to help others. So if you don't want help from someone that knows how to Rock this Game along with Oblivion , Morrowind, Daggerfall & Arena..PfffffTtt.

Lol @ post above mine..carma a bit..ch.

[Isabella X]

Notice my name mentioned ..but their seams to be a misunderstanding....

I have never ever had a problem with this Game. (15 hour +Stable)
I have NOT changed a thing on my computer.
I have a completely Stable Game. 100% (patch 1.2 gave me fits ..BUT I won.)

The only thing I have done is try to help others. So if you don't want help from someone that knows how to Rock this Game along with Oblivion , Morrowind, Daggerfall & Arena..PfffffTtt.

Lol @ post above mine..carma a bit..ch.

I'm not sure what you're so upset about. You haven't helped at all, you've come in saying the game works fine for you. Congrats. It works fine for lots of people. It isn't working fine for us.

[*Chloe*]

The new nVidia drivers have not solved the black screen. Still waiting for some sort of hope, considering I can't play any of my PC games now.

[Channing]

UPDATE- AMD 12.1 drivers did not solve the problem, still hard crash.

[C.L.U.T.C.H]

UPDATE- AMD 12.1 drivers did not solve the problem, still hard crash.
Now I can't even start up my computer, which YOUR SOFTWARE HAS ABSOLUTELY CAUSED.

You're nuts.
You could just as well start yelling at the moon. And threaten to sue the moon.

Did any of you people ever done any programming ? Did you ever look at what the software architecture of a computer or an Operating System looks like ? This is not rocket science.

An Operating System divides "the program" running on your computer in two parts.
1) The kernel. This is part of the Operating System. In this case Windows. Inside the kernel run the drivers. The drivers are little pieces of the kernel that deal with specific pieces of hardware. The kernel handles all reads and writes to harddisks. It keeps track of files (the filesystem). It puts stuff on your screen. It keeps an eye on your mouse and keyboard. It handles incoming ethernet packets and sends out packets. Everything "low level" is handled by the kernel. This is a security measure as well, to make sure that no benign program can cause havoc.

2) The applications. What you know as "the programs". The stuff that is in a file called "exe". Skyrim is an application. When Skyrim wants to draw on your screen, it asks the kernel to do that. Via a so called "system call". There is a fixed set of system calls that any program can do. Some system calls are called directly by the application. Most are called indirectly via library functions (like all functions you can call in the DirectX library).

The CPU keeps track in which mode it is running. Either in kernel mode, or protected mode. Or the CPU is running in User mode. The kernel's code is of course running in kernel mode. And the Skyrim code that has been written by Bethesda is running in user mode. When code is running in user mode, it can't even access the hardware. So applications are forced to ask the kernel to do things for them, via system calls.

Now comes the big revelation.
1) If the CPU runs into an irrecoverable error or problem, and it is running in User mode, the OS will just stop the program. You know this as "a crash to the desktop (CTD)". The kernel itself, and all other applications (like your windows explorer, your webbrowser, etc) will all continue to run.
2) But if the CPU runs into an irrecoverable error or problem when it is running in kernel mode, it can't do much. The OS will try to display an error message on the screen, and then reboot. This is the famour "blue screen of death". The BSOD is the OS telling you that something went bad, and the OS does not know how to recover. The error message is a hint what went wrong.
3) Sometimes something in kernel mode goes so wrong, that the OS can't even give you that warning message. The OS can't even try to get into a clean state. Or reboot the machine. Then the only thing that can happen is that a) the system hangs, or the hardware notices that things gone wrong, and the hardware forces a reboot. This is your black screen. This is your hard reboot.

So anything that Skyrim does wrong, any bugs, anything stupid -> the OS kills Skyrim and you see a Crash to the Desktop.
Bugs in the drivers -> usually a Blue Screen of Death.
Problems with the hardware -> Hard reboots.

That's why these problems here are *not* bugs in Skyrim.
They can't be, by definition. Because of the architecture of an Operating System.

Now what the problem is, I don't know. I don't know how to fix it. I don't even know how to troubleshoot it.
But I can tell you one thing: IT IS NOT A BUG IN SKYRIM THAT IS CAUSING THE HARD CRASHES !

Clear now ?