Minor issue:

When connecting dialogue branches, the connectors go in weird loops everywhere, instead of taking the shortest route. This leaves me with something that looks like crazy paving. You can't easily see which branches are connected to which unless you actually click on one (which highlights the relevant connectors).

Anyone else had this problem?

While I think "Too buggy to be useful" is an overstatement it is definitely true that the Kit needs patching. Serious Patching

Updated.
And I do agree. I'm seriously doubting that the CK we have is what they used to make the game with. Seriously doubting that.

While technically true that we aren't using the same CK they did, it's entirely possible that the reasons for some of these bugs are because of the changes they had to make for public consumption. Code has a tendency to belch up all sorts of issues you weren't expecting when you disable something.

minor/medium bug: bookshelves that you install may duplicate books if taken straight off the shelf, and do not use the playerbookshelfclicktrigger trigger. It seems to be random, so you may not know until you actually test out the bookshelves.

Lolwut? I worked HUNDREDS (If not well over a thousand) of hours on a mod for Fallout 3, AND one for New Vegas, and both of those function. They are somewhat buggy, but about 99% of the problems I was able to fix, and no severe game breaking ones remained. I fail to see where either GECK would corrupt your mod beyond use after just '2 hours of work'...

Actually, OBs CS was quite unstable too. Morrowinds is the most stable

I discovered the other night that the CK suffers from the same problem as Oblivions, although, so far, it's happened just the once. After a lot of item viewing, editing, your next double click of an item doesn't call up a property window. In fact, nothing will respond, you can't save. If you click Fie Data... it reloads the esm (and I guess esp), so any work you've done is lost.

How I screamed in OB, after losing a few hours of manual editing to items....
Luckily my Skyrim changes were not major, more of a dig around seeing what does what, and making minor changes as I think of them, so easily fixed.

I've been following Giskard's blog for a while now, ever since he posted the video about the navmesh bug on YouTube. I assumed he was telling the truth, and I still think he is, so I posted it here so everyone else could know.

But anyway, if you read his blog, you'll notice Giskard said "in Skyrim it takes as a little as 2 hours to corrupt the mod your working on and render it useless." Did he say this is the same with the GECKs, as well? No. Neither did I say that. He said that since Fallout 3, the problem has gotten progressively worse. Therefore, I would assume it would be around 4 or 6 hours for the GECKs for Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. I also think he meant it as in too long in one session. And I don't think anyone is going to spend around 4 to 6 hours on the kit non-stop. So I think this is why you have not run across this problem.

That's exactly what I did. I'm a senior in high school with 2 classes (hours) of school a day. So from about 1pm to 12am, other than pausing for dinner (When I leave the GECK/CK open) I'm using it. So I maxed out easily at 15 hours in one session with the GECK, and so far have pulled a 4 hour session in the CK. I've never experienced this issue or my mods become 'useless'...

Well, I'd suggest not taking too much of what the guy says as truth without independent confirmation. Yes, he's right about the navmesh bug, but there's a whole lot of rambly nonsense he's NOT right about.

Yes, the CK can corrupt your mod. It's happened to me twice, but neither time did it have anything to do with actually leaving it open for long periods of time while I was working on it on and off. I didn't do but one mod for Fallout 3, and it never corrupted. Even with as unstable and broken as the Oblivion CS was, it never corrupted a mod I worked on unless it crashed in the act of saving.

Well, following your post, I looked online and couldn't find any proof of the corruption statement, so I guess I'll take your word for it. Maybe it's a problem specific to Giskard. Or maybe it just doesn't exist, and he confused it with something else.




The Oblivion Construction Set is FAR from unstable and broken. In all my time playing around with it, I've encountered very little mod-breaking bugs. The only time I've ever lost a mod is when the computer completely blacked out in the middle of a save (complete black screen, looping sound, completely unresponsive until I shut off the system. Only ever seems to happen when I use the CS for a long period of time. It's happened before.). And that's probably a problem specific to my computer.

True, the Oblivion CS is not infallible. It has its share of buggy features (the Heightmap Editor, for instance.), but nothing that can't be worked around, or can stop you from getting on with your work.

This was an interesting one: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1347740-trying-to-view-illia-in-ck-all-i-see-is-this/

It's repeatable: When I try to look at Illiana's preview, I get tons of bone errors and she won't show up. Just a big white M.

And I just wanted to say that while the issue of not being able to see all windows completely (due to resolution) is listed as minor, it's extremely irritating to me that they knew about this and didn't at least resize the windows for us poor sods with nothing but a laptop to create on. It's anything but minor to me.

Support for multiple monitors. You cannot save a plugin if you have the desktop extended to additional monitors. This is a huge pain in the backside!

That's a levelled spawn, or M for Monster. It picks an appearance from her out of the defined reference list... That isn't a bug, that's how it works...

Yes you can. I have the render window on my second monitor and can save with no issues at all.

I would like to express how imperitive it is for people to ensure that their issue is in fact an issue, and not them doing something wrong. Now, I'm not saying that you, Badcock, are doing anything wrong. It may be a compatability issue for just some.

To all: Make a thread about your issue before reporting it here, so if NOBODY else has it, chances are it's just you doing something wrong, so it isn't wrongfully reported.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1348553-deleted-objects-show-up-near-00-in-tamriel-worldspace/

Update from previous: Havok on NPC's and creatures is seriously bugged in any cell beyond the central 64x64 cell quads. North to south (top to bottom) on the y axis at -64 and upwards (65,66,67 etc) and greater than +64 seems to be ok, but anything on the x axis of the same (ie -65,0 or +65,0 and beyond) cause loss of havok qualities by the look of things.

Maegfaer has provided a 16x16 quad block for MERP that shows in RED where the havok issue occurs:http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8141/problemarea.png

Discussion thread:

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1348275-gamebreaking-bug-for-worldspaces-bigger-than-4-quads-in-width/page__st__30

Updated.
I do try to check all the issues posted, but I totally agree with this. I'll add it to the main post actually.

Not a bug, but I think I've found out why the Creation Kit has all of the GECK's bugs.

Load up the CK, but DON'T load up Skyrim.esm. Now, go to Items, and to MiscItem. Notice there are two entries: BobbyPin (0000000A) and Caps001 (0000000F). But that isn't it. Next, go to Miscellaneous, and to Messages. You will find these entries:

HelpHacking (0000017B
HelpPipBoyData (00000182)
HelpPipBoyItems (0000016D)
HelpPipBoyRepair (0000016E)
HelpPipBoyStats (00000181)
HelpTerminal (00000180)
HelpVATSPC (0000017D)
HelpVATSXbox (00000183)

Now, load up Skyrim.esm. Go back to MiscItem. You'll notice that BobbyPin and Caps001 have had a name change: Lockpick and Gold001, respectively. Both with the same EditorIDs.

But go to Messages, and you'll notice none of the above entries have been removed or replaced.

Further evidence of this can be found in BodyPartData, where any entries have a column called "VATS Target", or in Weapon, where all entries have a field called "Base VATS To-Hit Chance". If there is anything else, I have not yet seen it.

The conclusion? Bethesda took the GECK, slapped a few new features in which caused more bugs in the process, deleted everything (or so they thought) to do with Fallout, and gave it a different name. That explains how ALL of the bugs in the GECK seem to have carried over from Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

On a side note, if you watch the Creation Kit Tutorial Series by Bethesda, look up in the top left-hand corner. Notice that the tool they are using is called "The Elder Scrolls Construction Set", NOT the Creation Kit. The CK they've released to us is obviously NOT the tool they used to make the game.

The Oblivion CS is just Morrowind's CS with things re-written and bolted on. The GECK is the CS with some addons, and the CK is the GECK with some changes. It's always been like that.

You'll also notice the CK used in the videos has extra buttons, however they are all buttons that are broken and wouldn't work. Things like the old snap to grid button (never worked), show/hide branches (SpeedTree no longer used), modify scripts (Script engine no longer used), that kind of thing. Probably removed just to de-clutter the interface for release.

The name is probably just because they didn't think of the Creation Kit name until later on in the design process, so the one they used was called the CS because that's the name they've always used.

Anyone else find the "Select reference in render window" button broken in the batch edit window for external emittance?

Try following this part of the tutorial: http://www.creationkit.com/Bethesda_Tutorial_Lights_and_FX#Using_Effects_and_External_Emittance (just the first bit).

I get a must close all dialogs before saving error. How did you get around that? Or did you get that error message?

Agreed. The mod below in my Siggy, I worked on for about 18+ hours at a time while I was bedridden over the weekend. It sounds to me like GameStarr has some sort of memory issue or is running OUT of memory and it isnt letting him know, resulting in overwritten data. I would like to blame his hardware on that one.

Gamestarr... what are your PC specs out of curiousity, as it seems you are the only one who has had this issue, and evenmoreso one that believes that the CK is the case.

I've never had this issue with the Creation Kit. I only posted it because I heard about it on Giskard's blog. And, like I said before, I jumped to the conclusion that he was telling the truth, stupid as it may sound, so I posted it here. And you'll see in a later post I suggested Giskard might have confused it with something else.