There could be a perk that prevents knockdown... In fact there used to be one, right?

no no, your right. I don't know why I said drawback :/ but regardless yeah, the recoil (expanding gases caused by the controlled explosion in the gun) forces the chamber open, sliding it backwards, expelling a round and then closes immediatly after loading a new bullet (if were talking about auto/semi auto). Which is like you said why the fire-r dosen't feel the amount of recoil that the person being shot is. For a majority of bullet rounds though, theres no way the person is just going to "mildly lose balance" or something, he's going to fall. Look at what happened with Cheney, he DROPPED his best friend. Besides the fact that it was an older guy the same thing would happen to just about anyone.

I guess this is one of those times when you have to adjust your opinions to reality rather than ignoring it.

The force is exactly the same, the difference is area. The only reason why a bullet can cause such damage is because it is very small. Thusly, even if the momentum is quite tiny, the size of the bullet allows it to do damage. If the bullet was the size of a rifle butt, it would do no more damage than the recoil from the gun does to the person who fires it.



Wait, are you still arguing AGAINST reality, here?



Drawback? Do you mean recoil?



No, it isn't. You can calculate it yourself; the mass of the bullet multiplied with the velocity = the momentum. While the speed is considerable, the mass of the bullet is not so, therefore the total momentum of it will not be that great, and if all of the force is absorbed into the body, the total force is not all that great either.



They didn't just say it, they tested it, showed it and tested it again. People are not knocked back when shot!



No, you are not listening. There is no such thing as knockback from the force of being shot! It doesn't happen!



It is the truth. Now, if you've watched too many Hollywood movies to believe reality, that's your problem, but it doesn't change the facts: You're not knocked back by the force of being shot!

:banghead:

Is it really so hard to accept reality?

ha wow lcars, now that your done disecting my paragraph, nobodys disputing that for every action theres and equal and opposite reaction, you just took (nearly) every sentence I had and took it out of reference. Had you read the forum you would have seen that greatest alive corrected me in using drawback instead of recoil but regarldess to begin with all of you other complaints . .
1. Yes, momentum is the mass times the velocity of an object, everyone here learned that in fifth grade, which is why I said a MAJORITY of bullets would knock a person down. Teddy Roosevelt was shot with a 22 in the chest and had it stuck in his sternum. He didn't fall. He gave a 5 hour speech immediatly after that THEN got it taken out. Had it been a 7.62x39 or better yet by x51 he would have a: FALLEN DOWN and b: gone to the hospital right then irrelivant as it is.
2. Its incredibly ignorant to say being shot dosen't/won't knock a person down. I'll give it to you I haven't seen that mythbusters episode, but from what it sounds like and what your entire knowledge about this comes from, they did it point blank. What I imagine the bullet just went strait through the chest because It was going TO fast. Whether or not they tested it further away I'm not sure but 50 yards with a 20 or 12 gauge and the dummy would have fallen. But of course when you respond and redisect this you'll disagree but whatever. Yes Lcars, hollywood shows people getting shot and falling down and yes thats fact yadda yadda but you have to see that you yourself are ignoring reality if you say that people no matter the size of the bullet nor its speed etc etc (which you have been). I'll throw in this face just so we can be even :violin:

I know that.

But you can fall down from other reasons than the force alone (and not the kind that Jedis use, either.) Say pain, for example. Or reflexes. Or fear. Or loss of coordination for a second. I'd say a mix of them all. I mean, I doubt a wasp put so much kinetic energy into his stinger, but when he sting me, the pain and reflex makes me react in the way that I jump away from the pain and I may trip or hit a wall (yes, I've done that) Or a dog suddenly jumps out and barks at you (or a friend who pranks you), you may trip and fall from the scare and reflex. Now... I've never been shot, but I do think you can react the same way.

My brother (who studies history among things) told me about when the british empire colonized tribal islands, or whatever, they had trouble with their warriors since their low caliber bullets wouldn't stop them. It went through them, they reacted like "ouch, something stung me, but I see no big wound" and continued to rush straight at the british soldiers. These warriors were brave, they didn't understand the concept of firearms, they didn't have reflex of falling down when hurt. Then the brits started issue .45 cal weapons with more stopping power...

Okay, (Lcars this is mostly directed at you)
I just watched the mythbusters episode you've been citing. Fans complained about the first one because it was unrealisitic due to busters high center of gravity on their metal rigg. When they revisited it and made the rigg more akin to a person he fell down every single time. They were testing for hollywood like flying backwards affects, NOT what we're talking about, we're talking about just falling down, which is according to your mythbusters, exactly what happens.

Oh for...

Buster is a crash test dummy! He's not particularly likely to stand up even if he isn't shot. There was an extremely small tolerance on the rig for when it would cause the dummy to fall, and that was really all that happened. He didn't fly backwards, he didn't even move backwards more than an inch. Hadn't it been for the fact that he's a bloody crash test dummy, he would have still been standing, regardless how many times he was shot.

We are certainly not talking about "falling down", because that is something that happens when your legs give in, not from the force of the shot.

wow, getting a bit heated?

Just a bit
And Lcars, we are talking about falling down. Buster's hard plastic and metal body was sufficient for mythbusters, had it not been so I would have seen them re RE do the experiment due to more complaints. But it was shown that being shot will put the recieving person down, not a hollywood stunt flip through window x, but they won't be standing either. I still fail to see how you think a person can just keep standing while being shot, thats more holleywood than flying through the window being shot. The main reasoning for this topic was if it would be realistic to include it in fallout nv and it is. At first you cited mythbusters saying that they proved me wrong, NOW you saying the test they re-did was inaccurate because he's a dummy and a person can stay standing after recieving a 50 caliber bullet to the chest.

No, you've just retreated from saying guns should knock people on their butts from the sheer force of the blast, which has been proven wrong, to saying it causes people to "fall down", which is another thing entirely.

You said, and I quote "in which case letting shotguns and bigger caliber guns knock people back in a certain distance from the user should be fine as far as physics are concerned". You aren't saying it causes them to fall down, you specifically said it knocks people back.

In the next sentence you said, and I quote "Saying a shotgun slug though won't knock a person down though is ridiculous". This time, you said "knock a person down". Still, nothing about someone falling down because his legs can't support him.

In a later post you said, and again I quote "Its incredibly ignorant to say being shot dosen't/won't knock a person down". Again, the phrasing is "knock a person down".

Mythbusters proved beyond any doubt whatsoever that a person isn't knocked back by the force of a shot. They never attempted to test whether or not someone could take a bullet and still have the composure to remain standing, but that's not what this is about. This is about the concept of knocking people down with the force of the blow, and it's been busted twice over.

Hey, Lcars, what about an expermient? Why don't we shoot you in the chest with a shotgun slug to determine if you are "knocked down" or simply "fell down" or even stand up unmoved?

Why Are we still arguing? Lcars Is right, but this game isnt really supposed to be just like real life so i dont see why they could'nt stumble or fall when you shot them with a high caliber weapon. If you got shot by a 50. cal bullet, you would fall but as Lcars said its not because of the sheer force of the bullet

What about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZYw1hkbmNU scene? People are being knocked down all over the place! If it's not realistic, it sure is badass and gory, just the way everyone likes it, right?

Just pointing out that my idea was supposed to be exclusively applied to heavy explosive weapons, which in real life feels more like a truck hitting you than a baseball bat.

dont know if serious

I get that this was ment to be for explosives like you cited in your original story with the missile launcher I believe? But this has kind of turned into something else in which we're also including shotguns and 50 caliber weapons, sorry for the transition. Anywho, sorry for not being more anol about my language Lcars, whatever you want to call it, (so you don't have to disect everything I say again) If you get hit with a big enough bullet, lead ball, whatever. You will hit the earth. Fall down get knocked on your a** whatever. Mythbusters DIDNT disprove it at all, they said hollywood actors being shot and chucked through the window isn't real, but Buster, like we talked about early and now again, was KNOCKED to the ground which you went on to say wasnt accurate cause buster is in fact just buster a test dummy and not accurate. Thats completely ignoring the fact that he weighs about the same as a person and also ignores the fact that they had him standing up! The second time around just on a more accurate platform! Again to sum it up mythbusters busted it because it wasn't a holleywood movie throw by the bullet, Buster still feel though. They WERE trying to see if Buster would remain standing they just had the holleywood standards in mind. This isn't getting anywere either so I say we call it quits without anymore asinine discussion.

Yeah, I think they were going more from the side of gory entertainment action, than actual realism in that movie. (Stupid movie by the way.)

kinda missing the point here fellows, your AVERAGE rifle projectile does not have the energy and force to go thru a cast iron engine block (like a .50 cal) BUT your average 10 gauge shotgun slug does( at close range) have the muzzle velocity to knock down a deer, which I am comparing to a human (and have seen there pelvics explode from a direct hit splintering it and sending bone shards into its lungs, effectivly killing it) BUT WE DON'T HAVE THEM!!! A 12 ga. will most likely NOT do this! so, knockdown, shell shock, ect.. effects should be reserved for explosive weapons only! I rest my opinion on this matter.

I wouldn't mind the knockback if it didn't happen very often. It should have the probability to occur of, say, a critical miss in the originals.

I thought this was mostly about guns knocking people back, hence the title of the topic. But, Lcars is right, falling down and being knocked down are two completely different things.

I'd still say knockback from the chock, reflex and pain induced on the victim, and not the force of the projectile. I mean, you see all those FAIL videos on Youtube where people get hit in the head or the chest with something small like a ball? Sure if they were ready for it they wouldn't fall. Either they don't see it, and the reflex tell them "something hit you in the back of the head! Fall down!" or they see it and they're still like "something just came out of nowhere and hit you in the face! Fall down!"

Of course you can be brave and train away reflexes, like those tribals I spoke about, and we wouldn't have this. But I do think the average wastelander is scared and still has human reflexes. Then there is the possibility of you knocking them unconscoious instead, then they surely would fall down, and that is something I'd like aswell!