FF 12&3 were what I would concider the golden age. I personally thought 78&9 were garbage. I'm quite happy with the newer rpgs like fallouts and tes, I like the direction they are going

Also I play http://delayedflight.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/poor_hatless_irish.jpg. They just can't make them since ever. (I have my own http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBEka-RIy1Y to think of stories).

How? FF XIII is nothing like XII. It's a shell of its former self.

The good thing about Final Fantasy is that it's constantly changing, both in its style and gameplay. II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, X, XI, XII, etc. all brought something new to the series, or took something that was there in a different direction. VI was a big step, as was X, XI, XII and now Versus XIII looks nothing like any previous game in the series.

To be honest, it's because of that that I have more confidence in Final Fantasy than I do the rest of the genre. XIII didn't do much for me, which is fine (different strokes for different folks), but Versus XIII is very appealing and there had been rumors that XII's team will be handling XV. Even if they aren't, XV probably won't be anything like XIII. Maybe it'll be more to my liking, maybe not.

Yeah I sure love how watered down RPG mechanics are and how RPG's are now becoming more cinematic and action based.


Nostalgia has nothing to do with this.

I want an RPG I can sink my teeth into, not some watered down cinematic game with some rpg elements that holds my hand all the way through. If you want to make something cinematic then go make a movie *cough*Bioware*cough*

All i can think about is money back in the old day,s when not everybody had an internet connection games had too be original and good on release too impress the customer .

Now publishers are the rulers in game land they tell the devellopers what the game has too be like and it has too fit in the profit expectations this market is so big there isnt much room for experiments or too hold onto a particular style that just a minority of people like and the big players are defenetly mindset too keep it that way same goes for the console cycle its mostly aimed at cashflow.

Maybe this new kickstarter thing can be revelutionar thing in the industry if some kind of develloper gets enough funds too make a particular game of an particular gerne , lets say i want a new Star Ocean Game i do would consider too pay 30 dollar or euro too the devv directly too make this happen yes if its a serious request ill hop in and not only for that game .

I think if things would go that way that would be cool " Power Too The People"

I'm really hoping Kickstarter starts an old school game revolution, to the point where the game devs won't even need Kickstarter.

Saying is nostalgia is short sighted. I've played the 'good old games' (which includes: Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Arcanum, Baldur's Gate 1, Baldur's Gate 2, System Shock 2, Jagged Alliance 2 and X-COM) all in the past 4 years. I never played them as a kid. The only games I played as a kid where Super Mario, Star Wars, Aladdin [these 3 on the SNES], Worms 2 and Morrowind (at least the ones which I can remember right now).

The good old games list I mentioned I find much much better than most of the games (action RPGs) which have been released in previous years, except for The Witcher, and another game I can't remember the name of right now (dammit!).

It could be nostalgia for some, but it isn't for me. They are just better. From an RPG mechanics point of view at least.

I think this thread should be called 'What ever happened to great jRPGs'.

I don't know to be honest - for me the last great jRPGs came out on the PSX. The ones released during the next gen just weren't as good.

I played Final Fantasy VII for the first time in 2010 and i loved it, my first JRPG too. Still think the gameplay formula is highly tedious but a great game with a great story nontheless.

Three words: Shin Megami Tensei. Look into it.

This


Well i think there are still a few gems on PS2, but yea SNES-PSX era where golden age of jRPGs, i was playing FFX lately for first time, gosh it was such a letdown comparing to older titles, and i think XII was much better (if you kick out the kid protagonist, Bash is a bro) despite implenting MMOish combat sheme from XI

Goes a bit further than 2001..

I think the plot has taken some hits in later years. Know that by 'plot' I don't mean 'writing', or even collective 'story'. You can still find fantastic writing today, and you can still find pretty crappy writing too. Those are independant of the plot though.

The plot is the basic sequence of events that make up the story. What happens. I feel like two things have gutted the plot in most video games. The first is moral choice systems, and the second is freeform open-worlds. With moral choice systems you are usually given two different options regarding an event, sometimes three with a middle ground. This sounds good for most players, since they feel like it gives them more control over the game, and lets them shape their own story. Unfortunately the moral choice system also forces the game to not only create two different plot lines, but it also forces the game to compartmentalize events. Instead of events in the plot flowing and being part of a bigger picture, they are broken down into little bite-sized independant chunks and then served to the player. If you're lucky they're at least presented in some kind of order. If you're not lucky you get a haphazard collection of unrelated events.

Then there's freeform open-worlds, something Bethesda is very good at. I loved Morrowind, to this day it is one of my favorite games, but I don't jump for joy whenever I hear about some new open-world game coming out. This is because the open-world is subject to many of the same plot issues that moral choice systems are. It forces the game to compartmentalize events, and wrap them up into independant quests or guild lines. While this can work well enough, in the case of Morrowind, it can also fail horribly. Just Cause 2 is an example of a game that is 99% gameplay with about 1% plot. There's little in the way of a sequence of events that can even be called a story, and there's no direction or reason to do anything. Just Cause 2 is wildly fun to play around in a blow stuff up with, but it doesn't have a plot. So when an RPG, a genre which relies so heavily on plot to make a memorable story and experience, goes for the freeform open-world idea it treads dangerous waters.

Trying to let the player "write their own story" is the reason you can't really play a great RPG. The plot suffers too heavily, and you don't end up with something like Chrono Trigger where you went on a grand adventure through time and space. Instead you get a game where Chrono wakes up in the morning, collects flowers, delivers some leather to the shop, and then makes a Dark Side choice to get a higher price for the leather, and then goes and joins the Temple Guild to war with the rival Pagan Guild, and then...

That's not great. It may be good, it may even be fun, but it's very difficult to end up great.

He never left space?

Well it really doesn't matter if it's good or bad or beneficial or detrimental because it is a certainty. Everything always changes. As individuals often it seems things are becoming more simple or less challenging but usually that has a bit to do with the fact that we have aged and become more knowledgeable. Sometimes it's just true. Regardless, our only choice is to either accept it or change it and as individuals changing it is difficult if there is a whole new generation embracing that change.

However I do feel RPGs have actually become more interesting and more challenging and especially more immersive and fun. Of course I do know that is not the opinion of those who believe they are the more savvy gamers and that my opinion is seen as ignorant to some. So be it, it's my thoughts on the matter and I am willing to go out on a limb to own it and express it and risk being attacked for it.

I miss walking 10 miles to school, uphill both ways. In the snow.

I don't really agree with this, KOTOR, The Witcher and even the japanese Steampunk Chronicles showed otherwise. I also think this is what all games should strive for, to give people enough choices to make the player feel he's getting his own unique ride, even if it's just an illusion with consequences that barely matters

The JRPGs of this generation been having very poor plots, and they still been as linear as they used to, if not more so. Star Ocean 4, FFXIII and so on, they all been disappointing while both SO2 and FF7 from the PS1 days were highly regarded. And with a few games like Resonance of Fate, they barely even tried to give the game a plot and just focused on the combat system. For some reason the story quality of JRPGs in general just gone down the drain, although there have been a few recent exceptions like Xenoblade Chronicles.

Also, Chrono Trigger had both exploration and choices. Not only whether you should recruit Magus or not, or grow a forest, but choices that give you different endings as CT have plenty of those.

JRPG's have always been pretty linear, but it seems to be a common trend to do away with the classic world map, and instead just funnel the player to exactly where they need to be. Even when backtracking/wandering is allowed, you're usually just given a list of specific destinations to appear at. I think it's a bad move overall, not only preventing the player from moving at their own pace more effectively, but phasing out a lot of fun exploration and discovery. I remember the dinosaur forest in Final Fantasy 6, the Son of Sun in Chrono Trigger, squirrel-hunting in Suikoden 2, and so on. A lot is lost without that exploration, and trying to place those things in a narrow corridor tends to make them either obvious and tacked on or obnoxiously obscure.

The time period mentioned wasn't just the "golden age of RPGs" it was the golden age of all genres.

Also back then..RPGs weren't labelled by their region...

I think part of that is due to the "better" graphics. Side effect of the graphics being better is that they take a heck of alot more work to do. The world map was simple back when it was low-res, chibi characters, etc.

(Another side effect of the "better" - i.e, harder & more work to program for - consoles is that there've been less console JRPGs, and more hand-held. Not every dev can afford the giant budget you need for a AAA console RPG.)

Yeah, I wouldn't really mind this move if it weren't for the fact that the games are generally worse compared to their console counterpart when it comes to story and gameplay too, not just graphics. Suikoden Tierkreis on the Nintendo DS is a lot worse than the main series for PS1/PS2, same with DQ9 compared to earlier games like DQ5 and DQ8, even if DQ5 did get a DS port.

You mention only JRPGs. They all moved to portable systems.

Yeah, my big issue with this is.... I've never owned a handheld, of any type.

And Shadowrun Return.


Handheld is far more practical for Japanese since they have a lot less time spent gaming at home.