You can get a good computer for less then $500, I don't know where people get numbers like 1000 or 2000.

Mine cost under $250 to build, and runs RAGE at the 60fps with almost non-existent texture pop. However, being honest, this is only possible at an 800x600 resolution.

Of course, $250 is oustandingly low of a budget, had I spent a few bucks more I'd be playing at at least 1280x1024. In fact I already can, but that lowers the fps to moving from 30fps to 60 and back... and for RAGE that's just ridiculous, the game is much more amazing when it flows like water.

Chances are they are from different countries with different currencies, and are just translating the price value to dollars without considering the different wages aswell as pricing per country.

Hmmm.... Slowly i'm beginning to understand where Rage gets it's bad reputation from.
So this is not so much about the quality of the product but about hurt feelings of disappointed longtime ID supporters.

What Carmack said is far from being stupid. In fact it's plain logic. And plain logic is what you would expect from a tech nerd like Carmack.
Producing modern type games is very expensive. It's so expensive that you really have to think about profit possibilities on different platforms before getting to work. Otherwise you will get broke.

The good old times when a little group of whiz kids could surprise the world with groundbraking technology on a business machine are over.

Games are massmarket now. There are no surprise hits anymore. We've seen it all before. It's all about making money by entertaining the crowd and not about making the gaming world a better place.

The problem is that this is hard to communicate even for specialized pr guys as most gamers don't seem to understand the effort that has to be put into modern games to make them work.
If ID would still go for pc only and produce games in a small and compact team, they wouldn't stand a chance against the big blockbuster games that sell millions of copies.
Good graphics are expensive because it's not just about programming a decent engine (which can be done buy very few people) at a given time but it's also about designing and creating polygon models and textures which is the far bigger part in making a game!

ID had to make a decision here:
Keep on working in a small team and drop out of the competition or stock up on manpower to stay on top.
The latter option is far more expensive and needs good sales to be profitable.
Making a console game is more profitable for developers than making a pc only game. This is a fact.

ID didn't do this to piss off their fans but just to stay competitive.

In my experience, you ultimately end up spending $1000 after buying not just the components, but the peripherals (monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers, chair (!), etc.) and I don't have that kind of money.

Countries do have a lot to do with it, it isn't always a straight conversion due to certain companies that mark up based on region.

It isn't always hardware either, software can be affected too. These are all straight USD prices for PC titles locally on release, not converted to local currency for an example:

RAGE $90
Skyrim $90
MW3 $105

In local currency:

RAGE $110
Skyrim $110
MW3 $130

Beth and Activision generally being the worst. As far as components and hardware examples go there seems to be a mark up + conversion across the board, the more components the more times you're stung.

so you play console games without a monitor, speakers and also while standing up?

Um, I have a couch and my TV has speakers built-in.

So you need a game that you can play on your couch.

To seriously play any id shooter except one you need a good chair and well positioned controls. To play online fighting games I need a good keyboard and my trackball well positioned at my desk in front of my sweet display or the kids will kill my ass. I can't even imagine playing an intense shooter on the couch.

The problem in a nutshell. id now makes games for this guy.

My PC costs:
-PC: $200
-Gfx Card: $30
-Monitor: $20
-Wireless keyboard + Wireless mouse: $15
-Speakers: $5 (better than TV speakers)

This is possible anywhere in the world, it's called buying online, buying at stores is a horrible idea. Sure prices vary but you never have to go as far as $1000.

And lets use some logic here. You know what you'll do when your console is old, and the new is out? Buy a new console. Isn't it easier to upgrade cheap parts for your PC instead of spending almost $1000 every time a new f*cking console releases?

Reading is apparently a lost art nowadays, for I said that I'm angry not because they DID that, everybody does, but because they SAID that. It's the "we never really wanted to make a game for you" that angers me. Telling 1/3 of your potential client base (which also happens to be the part of potential client base that REMEMBERS who id Software are) that you never really wanted to make a game for THEM is stupid, no matter how you do things. No matter if it's truth or not. Especially if you take into consideration how they were mentioning PC-exclusive features now and then, including a texture pack (canceled) and the editor (Duke Nukem Forever-ed). I wanted this game, I watched trailers (something I almost NEVER do, even if I wait for a game), read previews and bought it not once, but twice, and then Carmack says that he never wanted to make a game for me, he was making game for console people and therefor I should be happy that I even can play it (although wait, the optimization is crap, so yeah).
It's the attitude that matters. Look at CD Projekt. Their big 2011 game, The Witcher 2 was buggy as hell and it required (and still does) a really damn powerful PC. What did they do? They patched it. They gave their customers some more replay value by small DLCs that were free with the patches. And when the console edition, full of new features came out, what did they do? They made a patch for PC version, that adds all the features from the console version. Even though their game was pirated as hell, they still don't want to use DRM. And that's a small developer from Eastern Europe who only made two games: The Witcher and The Witcher 2. And even though the game sometimes gets frustrating, sometimes bugs get in the way of the fun, or slowdowns rear their ugly head, I still love those guys. They care. RAGE is playable mostly without any issues on my rig, with small texture pop-up. And frustration never gets in the way. But this doesn't matter. Because devs outright stated that I'm not welcome there.
I don't care what DOOM 4 will be like. I was a DOOM fan before all that crap, you know. But now I don't care.
He said it six months ago and never bothered to apologize. Until he does, the issue isn't settled.
Considering how you already have a PC (I don't think you're using your cell to post here, or something), you only have to buy new guts, MAYBE new monitor (if you still have a 4:3 one).

Awful. Here RAGE costed me roughly 15 bucks and Skyrim a 20.

LOL yeah, and that's not even necessary, I love my 4:3 very much, I don't need widescreen to enjoy my games
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Lol you should also just forget, and get over the problems dude. Carmack has nothing to apologize about, and you'll never get your apology.
So what will you do for as long as he hasn't apologized? Stop caring for any of his games? He won't care, id won't care. They'll keep making money, and then keep making games. Just get over it man, it's what's best.

Well I live in Australia, and I bought a PC a couple of years ago now that has:

Graphics Card - NVidia GTS 250
CPU - Intel i5 2.67 GHz
RAM - 4 Gigs DDR3

And the monitor we already had, the case we already had, and i can't remember the specs of the motherboard, the NIC or the Power Supply, kjeyboard, mouse was $50.

I ended up paying in total easy $700. That's jsut how Australia is. However we earn more, but it's cancelled by the fact everything is more expensive. But there is no way in any stretch that this would translate to a $25 GFX in any way. I can't imagine ever finding anything that cheap. Graphics cards here are $200 for an alright one, and anything on line isn't much under I've found. If anyone does find a graphics card better than mine for $25, pm me, and Ill buy it, and give you $25 for the find*.

* Terms and conditions apply

My card was $50 from TigerDirect, but I got a $20 rebate so yeah, $30 was the final cost.
As far as it being an "allright" card, all I can say is that, as I stated before, I run Rage at steady 60 for the most part, and no ugly texture pop.

Man it seems you guys from other places have it hard...

Yes, yes he has. For brushing off PC as a second-rate platform for second-rate people, having it unplayable on half the PCs and breaking promises. And that's not even mentioning all the other problems with the game.
If one man stops caring, okay. But what if thousands would? And they certainly would.

I have a strong machine, a very nice display and I have spent and will spend money to maintain my rig. I built it to play games in style 'cause I love them and it's my hobby.

A game made for casual gamers to play on minimal machines is not my idea of fun. I avoid them. A pity id now occupies that category. I thought it was well served but id likes the money it may make there. Fine I will be very careful with id in the future and promise to have no expectations of anything good coming from id again.

"Fool me once, shame on — [pauses] — shame on you. Fool me — [pauses] — You can't get fooled again" GWB

Sure, if I had the money to begin with. Unlike you, I don't have money to throw around wherever I frickin' please. It took me an epic amount of time for me and my brothers to pool up money for an Xbox, and it's lasted us a good four years now. If I had tried to save up for a PC, maybe I would have one by now - but then we'd only have a single machine for a single person. What good is that?

So no. For me, an Xbox was the right decision.

And who do you think you are, talking down to me like that? I have been a computer programmer for ten freakin' years, and I know how to screw around with the guts of a computer, both with hardware AND software. I know where to get good deals in computer hardware.

That said, I will not take ANY of this crap from you. Don't you dare assume that you know better than me here.

Your logic is so filled with holes you could put it on a sandwich and I'd mistake it for swiss cheese. Yes, when I learned that the game was being developed to play identically on Xbox, PC, and PS3, I did the only thing I could do and bought the game on Xbox, because that's all I had. And I enjoyed it. But I had no say over how id put this game together.

And don't you dare try to belittle me by telling me you're more of a "serious gamer" than I am, just because I have to use a controller rather than a mouse. I know mice offer more control than thumbsticks. Up until Rage, I had played all of id's games on a PC for this reason, and right up until Rage shipped I was still debating with myself whether I should buy the game for the PC just so I could have a mouse, a console, and of course id studio. But I'm happy with my choice, because even now I simply wouldn't be able to play the game at all if I bought it for the PC.

So both of you can take your $200 graphics cards and shove them up your @$$es for all I care. It is NOT my fault that Rage is the most console-centric game id has ever created. And I won't have you RAGE (ha ha) at me just because Rage doesn't have all the fancy graphical effects and hardcoe difficulty modes that other id games have had before.

I have two $200 cards. I'd only have one if I knew that SLI would be impossible with Rage. Thanks John.

Hey it's not your fault. it's id's for pandering. Just because they decided to cash out is not your fault either. It's that it's a simple console game that is the problem. Not for you obviously ... but it is for me.

The implications of what you said were as stupid and irrational as they were obvious. You can't expect to shrug this off like that.

I think you're confusing gaming with epeening, and it goes some way to explaining your attraction yet dislike for RAGE.

Go and download yourself a benchmark demo or something, play that for awhile. It may remind you of what gaming is, and has always been about.

Sigh.

Here's the quote from Carmack again: http://www.gamefront.com/carmack-we-do-not-see-the-pc-as-the-leading-platform-for-games/

Point out to me where he said that he never wanted to make a game for you, please.
Point out to me where he said that you should be happy you can even play it, please.

Oh, what's that? He didn't.

The negativity here is astonishing. You're seeing a simple quote saying something completely different, extrapolating like crazy from it, and using that as a stick to bash id with.

By all means bash id, and by all means bash Rage, but it would be nice if that bashing was based on something like facts, cos right now it looks more like paranoia to me.

You said:

"It is NOT my fault that Rage is the most console-centric game id has ever created."

Indeed it's is not.

Seems like this applies more to you than to me.
I said that Carmack is a tech nerd and not a pr guy who might take people's reception of mentioned facts into account.
He just talked about things the way they are. A pr professional would have chosen different words.
I'm sure i understood your viewpoint.

He didn't say that he never wanted to make a game for pc gamers. He just said that making a game for pc (only) is not profitable anymore.
He never said the pc and it's userbase svck. That's your personal interpretation.
In fact i remember reading an interview with Todd Hollenshead where he stated that ID really wanted to stay on pc but low sales due to pirating would make this a difficult decision.

Look at the bad rep this game has on pc and ask yourself why there's no additional support for it.
Bad sales due to bad rep -> no money for additional support. It's that easy...


Again: He never said that he doesn't want to make a game for you. Get over it.
Console games sell better than pc games. Modern games are expensive to produce that's why more and more companies are switching to consoles.


It's not about attitude. It's just about earning money. Times change and so has the games market.
ID always gave support like you mentioned to their games when they were an independant developer.
Now they are part of a big corporation and have to obey to the rules of the market. You might want to address your anger at ID's parent company.

I live in a firth wheel in the bush. I am on a pension and have no other income. I am poor by almost any standard.

I love my video games and build machines to play them. It is a fair part of my income when I build them so you might want to take your [censored] and stuff it where the sun don't shine.