What happened to Rage? : Othor Games

» Fri May 04, 2012 10:38 am

Sigh.

Here's the quote from Carmack again: http://www.gamefront.com/carmack-we-do-not-see-the-pc-as-the-leading-platform-for-games/

Point out to me where he said that he never wanted to make a game for you, please.
Point out to me where he said that you should be happy you can even play it, please.

Oh, what's that? He didn't.

The negativity here is astonishing. You're seeing a simple quote saying something completely different, extrapolating like crazy from it, and using that as a stick to bash id with.

By all means bash id, and by all means bash Rage, but it would be nice if that bashing was based on something like facts, cos right now it looks more like paranoia to me.

Mr Shelter joined this board about the time the outrage about Rage, heh, started to peak. Joined with the name of Shelter and defended the game with all his might, gee could there be a conspiracy here ... na.

» Fri May 04, 2012 9:14 am

Seems like this applies more to you than to me.
I said that Carmack is a tech nerd and not a pr guy who might take people's reception of mentioned facts into account.
He just talked about things the way they are. A pr professional would have chosen different words.
I'm sure i understood your viewpoint.

Well then he should've consulted with a PR professional.

He didn't say that he never wanted to make a game for pc gamers. He just said that making a game for pc (only) is not profitable anymore.
He never said the pc and it's userbase svck. That's your personal interpretation.
In fact i remember reading an interview with Todd Hollenshead where he stated that ID really wanted to stay on pc but low sales due to pirating would make this a difficult decision.

Remember a little game called DOOM 3? It was made for PC and Xbox. And it didn't have nearly as much problems, RAGE has even to this day. And I'm not angry at Todd or Tim. John is the face and the head of the studio.

Look at the bad rep this game has on pc and ask yourself why there's no additional support for it.
Bad sales due to bad rep -> no money for additional support. It's that easy...

Well then it brings us back to the fact that he shouldn't have said that or should've asked a PR guy on how to say it better. And with canceled texture pack and DNF-ed editor, reputation doesn't improve.

Again: He never said that he doesn't want to make a game for you. Get over it.
Console games sell better than pc games. Modern games are expensive to produce that's why more and more companies are switching to consoles.

As I said, I know it is so. I'm pissed off because he SAID it. Others have common sense not to, even if their PC ports are atrocious (hello, Capcom).

It's not about attitude. It's just about earning money. Times change and so has the games market.
ID always gave support like you mentioned to their games when they were an independant developer.
Now they are part of a big corporation and have to obey to the rules of the market. You might want to address your anger at ID's parent company.

Well, I don't think that Bethesda have that much of a hand in whatever's going on at id Software's office.

» Fri May 04, 2012 4:25 pm

Richard Teph, I'm on your side! But what is the real problem here?
Let's honestly ask ourselfs - IS RAGE A GREAT CONSOLE GAME? Ah?
I'm not talking about amasing shooting part and other separate cool-realised elements, I'm asking about overall result! IS IT REALLY A GREAT CONSOLE GAME?
I wonder if this would be a PC exclusive title being absolutely with same content and gameplay as it is now. How would it make game any better?? Therefore:
IS RAGE A GREAT GAME?........This question is yet to be answered......NOT NOW :smile:

» Fri May 04, 2012 3:44 pm

Mr Shelter joined this board about the time the outrage about Rage, heh, started to peak. Joined with the name of Shelter and defended the game with all his might, gee could there be a conspiracy here ... na.

Sorry but no. The record shows that I haven't been shy about criticising the game where I feel it deserves it. Check my posting history if you need anything to back up that claim. My defending of the game with all of my might is clearly something that only exists in your mind. Can you not just accept that it is possible to hold opinions on the game that lie somewhere between "it svcks" and "I love it"?

» Fri May 04, 2012 6:37 am

So both of you can take your $200 graphics cards and shove them up your @$$es for all I care
And who do you think you are, talking down to me like that? I have been a computer programmer for ten freakin' years, and I know how to screw around with the guts of a computer, both with hardware AND software. I know where to get good deals in computer hardware.

Lmfao xD
My card was $30 as I stated.
Sorry if you feel like I talked you down in anything, but I made NO lies in my pricing, and if that makes you feel like I'm calling your posts bs or something then too bad.
Is it talking down on someone to state there are cheap ways to get something? I don't think so.
On a last note, you are obviously lost in your thoughts, because no, I am not a Mr. Moneybags or some [censored], and I certainly could never afford to buy a $200 card.

Comprende? I am trying to let people know there are deals out there cheap as hell, which is how I got my computer, and if that ticks you off because you didn't find them then that's too bad, deal with it. That's all there is to say. I have no reason to argue my costs with anyone.

I'm pissed off because he SAID it.

He did go for the console market, so what? Everyone's been doing it for years. Oh, he's the only one actually stating it out loud? Now is that really a bad thing, or a good thing?

I'm just saying, you're taking this too seriously, and his words affecting you that way is something personal, you're just growing a grudge against Carmack. That's not going to get you anywhere, or make the company change their tactics. Just let it go, man, try to.

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:21 pm

Sorry but no. The record shows that I haven't been shy about criticising the game where I feel it deserves it. Check my posting history if you need anything to back up that claim. My defending of the game with all of my might is clearly something that only exists in your mind. Can you not just accept that it is possible to hold opinions on the game that lie somewhere between "it svcks" and "I love it"?

Just turning the conspiracy theory on it's head is all.

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:17 am

The problem I had with Rage, and still do, is that there would be absolutely nothing that I would do differently if I had to do it all over again. There were no random events... there were no divergent paths. It's what it is... and I enjoyed it once. It has absolutely nothing to make me want to play it again.

That's why I said this-

Also if it had dynamic job board missions, those were very exciting, especially that sniper escort job.
If it had 10 types of those jobs that would vary throgh enemies and locations, the replay value would have quadrupled.

It really had huge potential in a lot of areas, I even spent more than 10 hours just playing card games.
If only had it been in development for another year, I think it would have been worth it.
It would have surpassed STALKER and Half Life 2 combined..

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:35 pm

I live in a firth wheel in the bush. I am on a pension and have no other income. I am poor by almost any standard.

I love my video games and build machines to play them. It is a fair part of my income when I build them so you might want to take your [censored] and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

I'm not even sure you've gotten the right post to reply to, seems to have little relationship.

I don't care where you live, how much you do/don't make or what percentage of your income you spend on your machine (or why you're bitter at a company that doesn't use everything you've bought). If you want to get silly over a game that doesn't make use of your hardware, then that's getting more than a little prissy.

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:43 am

Well then he should've consulted with a PR professional.

That's exactly what i was talking about.

Remember a little game called DOOM 3? It was made for PC and Xbox. And it didn't have nearly as much problems, RAGE has even to this day. And I'm not angry at Todd or Tim. John is the face and the head of the studio.

ID Software was an independant developer then. This is more important for a product than you might think....

Well then it brings us back to the fact that he shouldn't have said that or should've asked a PR guy on how to say it better. And with canceled texture pack and DNF-ed editor, reputation doesn't improve.

Right.

As I said, I know it is so. I'm pissed off because he SAID it. Others have common sense not to, even if their PC ports are atrocious (hello, Capcom).
Well, I don't think that Bethesda have that much of a hand in whatever's going on at id Software's office.

Parent companies set the timelines, grant the money (or not), do the marketing and support afterwards.
In other words: They don't just distribute, they have the final word on everything!
It's highly unlikely that ID's sell-off to Bethesda/Zenimax did not have any influence on Rage's outcome.

On both sides: On the companies' workflow and obviously on the fans reception of the final product.

Just look at all the posts here expecting Rage to be an open world rpg....

» Fri May 04, 2012 4:05 am

ID Software was an independant developer then. This is more important for a product than you might think....

Well, publisher still has a lot of influence. Especially if said publisher is the Empire of Evil (Activision).

Just look at all the posts here expecting Rage to be an open world rpg....

Well, they've been mislead. I've expected the game to be bigger, but not a RPG. And they were going to make it bigger, but then the reality of making game console-centric with release on Xbox crawled in. If they only chose PC and PS3, then the game might've been bigger - after all, there is no disc swapping on those two.

» Fri May 04, 2012 2:52 pm

Well, they've been mislead.

Mislead? Show me where they promised it to be a huge open world. People were complaining here that they expected it to be like Fallout because it had Bethesda on the cover. Those people weren't mislead as much as being ignorant that the game was not made by Bethesda.

My question to all you PC players is what do you expect to do with the level editor?

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:18 am

Well, publisher still has a lot of influence. Especially if said publisher is the Empire of Evil (Activision).

I always thought this trophy would belong to EA... :biggrin:

Well, they've been mislead. I've expected the game to be bigger, but not a RPG. And they were going to make it bigger, but then the reality of making game console-centric with release on Xbox crawled in. If they only chose PC and PS3, then the game might've been bigger - after all, there is no disc swapping on those two.

Mislead is the wrong word here. It's more about false expectations.
Maybe ID should have made it more clear that Rage is after all a first person shooter and not an RPG.

As far as i know, the 360 version is by far the best selling so there was no way around that console.
But considering that Rage still has 21 GB (way more than any other game i know) of data even on Xbox360, i doubt that the media it is delivered on is the bottleneck here.

» Fri May 04, 2012 7:31 am

Mislead? Show me where they promised it to be a huge open world. People were complaining here that they expected it to be like Fallout because it had Bethesda on the cover. Those people weren't mislead as much as being ignorant that the game was not made by Bethesda.

^ this

» Fri May 04, 2012 4:44 am

I always thought this trophy would belong to EA... :biggrin:

EA is the Empire of A-holes. Not evil.

As far as i know, the 360 version is by far the best selling so there was no way around that console.
But considering that Rage still has 21 GB (way more than any other game i know) of data even on Xbox360, i doubt that the media it is delivered on is the bottleneck here.

Well, I remember reading somewhere that DVDs were the problem.

» Fri May 04, 2012 4:09 pm

. And they were going to make it bigger, but then the reality of making game console-centric with release on Xbox crawled in. If they only chose PC and PS3, then the game might've been bigger - after all, there is no disc swapping on those two.

so true, many games have been ruined like that, consoles have been ruining games for a long time now..

» Fri May 04, 2012 6:30 pm

so true, many games have been ruined like that, consoles have been ruining games for a long time now..

Care to elaborate which games?

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:49 pm

EA is the Empire of A-holes. Not evil.

How about both? :biggrin:

Well, I remember reading somewhere that DVDs were the problem.

If that was the case, this would also affect PCs as i'm sure that most PCs today have a DVD drive but not necessarily a Blu Ray drive.

DVDs still outsell Blu Rays by factor 10.
Except for HD movies and games on PS3 , BLU Rays are rarely used for distribution.

Blu Ray is not as widespread as one might think even if it's the more advanced storage medium.

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:38 pm

How about both? :biggrin:

If that was the case, this would also affect PCs as i'm sure that most PCs today have a DVD drive but not necessarily a Blu Ray drive.

DVDs still outsell Blu Rays by factor 10.
Except for HD movies and games on PS3 , BLU Rays are rarely used for distribution.

Blu Ray is not as widespread as one might think even if it's the more advanced storage medium.

The only case they could make is digital distribution, however, there is a cap on internet in many areas so who the hell wants to download 25GB data for one game when their limit is 50GB a month?

» Fri May 04, 2012 4:38 pm

How about both? :biggrin:

If that was the case, this would also affect PCs as i'm sure that most PCs today have a DVD drive but not necessarily a Blu Ray drive.

DVDs still outsell Blu Rays by factor 10.
Except for HD movies and games on PS3 , BLU Rays are rarely used for distribution.

Blu Ray is not as widespread as one might think even if it's the more advanced storage medium.

PCs have digital distribution and the game uses Steamworks, so there's no problem with DVD here. Xbox 360, on the other hand, relies solely on discs for its big games (okay, it does download patches and DLCs, but you get the idea).

» Fri May 04, 2012 9:17 am

PCs have digital distribution and the game uses Steamworks, so there's no problem with DVD here. Xbox 360, on the other hand, relies solely on discs for its big games (okay, it does download patches and DLCs, but you get the idea).

There are games that can be downloaded to the Xbox as well, but Devs don't take that into consideration. I have 3 games that I downloaded to my Xbox that I can play without a disc. The market is pretty small and the games are usually more expensive. Next gen consoles, this argument will be irrelevant.

» Fri May 04, 2012 11:03 am

The only case they could make is digital distribution, however, there is a cap on internet in many areas so who the hell wants to download 25GB data for one game when their limit is 50GB a month?

PCs have digital distribution and the game uses Steamworks, so there's no problem with DVD here. Xbox 360, on the other hand, relies solely on discs for its big games (okay, it does download patches and DLCs, but you get the idea).

There are games that can be downloaded to the Xbox as well, but Devs don't take that into consideration. I have 3 games that I downloaded to my Xbox that I can play without a disc. The market is pretty small and the games are usually more expensive. Next gen consoles, this argument will be irrelevant.

Rage is an extraordinary game considering it's size. More than 21 GB of data is a pain in the butt for digital distribution.
I have a DSL6000 connection (which is sufficient for PLAYING most games) and downloading Rage via steam would take days to finish so this is not really an option for a game that is this large.

Most games on the market today (on any type of platform) fit onto one single DVD. Rage doesn't but Rage is an exception.

Digital downloads are also supported on Xbox live.
MW3, Gears of War3 and the likes are all available via digital distribution.
I can't tell how it's running in other countries but the amount of games available for digital distribution on xbox live in Gemany is rapidly increasing.

As far as i know, Steam has a bigger list of games available than xbox live but this is no surprise as it is steams business model to connect everything to their service.
On Xbox you can also play games without ever having connected to xbox live even once.
No registering, no downloading necessary. It just adds additional functionality when registered to xbox live.
Steam powered games need registering so having the games distributed through that platform is the next logical step.

But again: Rage is HUGE. In fact i don't know any other game that comes close.

» Fri May 04, 2012 6:47 am

Rage is an extraordinary game considering it's size. More than 21 GB of data is a pain in the butt for digital distribution.

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is 29 gigs, but it's for sale on Steam.

» Fri May 04, 2012 10:35 am

The more I play other games the more I realize how great Rage is in all of its aspects...world, animations, upgrade system(although it could have been more elaborate), sound design, atmosphere, vehicle mechanic etc.etc.
It pretty much is one of the best FPS games out there.

Yet I don't see many people playing it and there are no new DLCs or anything?

I think the biggest mistake was having racing online mode instead of something like elaborate survival co-op mode akin to Killing Floor or L4D2. Those games are to this day extremely popular.
If that DLC would come out it would completely restore the gamem, in my opinion.

The worst thing that would happen would be classic multiplayer(players vs players) which is just dreadful because then everything is random and you just die every 10 seconds and stare at spawning screen most of the time. Such mp mode would be extremely primitive indeed.

I don't even bother with anything online anymore unless it's only co-op, like Mass Effect 3 mp for example, that is very satisfying and enjoyable online experience. co-op is the only way to go...

If ID Studio came out with the game as promised, it might have tanked. There will not be any more content for Rage. Bethesda understands the failure that it was. You might think its great, and some aspects of it were, but if you had an AMD Graphics Card the day it came out, it ruined the experience and made you not want to take a second look.

Bethesda also promised a 64 bit version weeks after release, which never happened.... for any of their games...

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:58 pm

There will not be any more content for Rage.

What a wonderful day when a random person can show up and announce that there will be no more support.

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:40 pm

What a wonderful day when a random person can show up and announce that there will be no more support.

It's quite silly when people do that. Here let me try something: There will be more content for Rage and it will be announced before the end of the month.

See what I did there, I made a comment without any other proof except speculation.