that Ive played is definitely the world design. It seriously continues to amaze me after putting nearly 300 hours into the game. The attention to detail when creating this world is absolutely mind blowing. I have no idea how they will be able to create a world that rivals skyrim when they eventually make fallout 4

I agree, the world design is very inspired for an open world where free roam and exploration are strong components. I'm not sure it's the best design ever though, because there are many games that are not open world and are designed very well for their purpose, and the comparison is not always fair if we disregard what purpose each design is meant must serve. For instance, the cities of Assassin's Creed. Great design for that kind of gameplay. Thief 1,2 brilliant design. Deus Ex.

Agreed the environment still blows me away

That is true ,though Skyrims was done as well and was on a MUCH larger scale than them. It is kind of unfair to compare them since thats not what other games were going for, but Skyrim is still more impressive to me because of it.

The whole point of a Bethesda game is the open world experience. I don't think many gamers get that. They talk about lack luster stories and subpar animations / voice acting. Yet no TES game, not even Fallout 3, can claim any of that either. When it comes down to it, on a cinematic, story telling experience no Bethesda game is going to get high praises as the best. However the amount of freedom that a Bethesda game offers is nothing that any other game has come close to. I have logged over 300 hours in the game, while being pulled into a world, not just the Skyrim landscape, by the mythology of game as a whole, and still haven't completed the game at 100% and only did the main quest, the civil war quest and about 4 misc side quests.

Now games that claim to have great stories and good animations/ voice acting like Dragon's age. I finished in two days. Great games, but Skyrim is in a class of its own and does something that many other games may try, but nothing yet can compare to the depth and scope of a Bethesda game. To me Skyrim isn't about an epic story or over the top awesome plot lines with the best voice acting ever. It's about being placed in this world, where I am a no body, and I can decide to live as a no body, or become a hero of legend. I can without ever touching a quest, enjoy Skyrim for countless hours, even years.

Agreed. Just running thought the plains and following some streams I keep seeing the little pools of water, dried out spots, springs, etc. just like a real living world. In fact once I started in Whiterun and followed the stream there running through the plains all the way to the lakes on the other side of Skyrim. It was just amazing. Add in the random rabbits, butterflies, etc. and there is just nothing like it on this scale anywhere.

I have to say Skyrim is probably the most "sandbox" style gaming of all titles on the market. When you compare it to the likes of say GTA IV, the sheer scale of Skyrim is impressive. GTA IV for the most part, has very little actual content to play in the vanilla game. While the main story was well done, outwith it there were few tasks you could actually do. Other than collection achievements, there are much fewer storylines, characters and general freedom to pick and chose your battles and how you progress through it.

For that Skyrim is the best. However as I have recently found it, its also extremely intimidating to new players who have not yet grasped the nature of how you go about playing the game. Some people have remarked to me that they simply didnt know what to do, or how to do a given task due to lack of experience with the franchise and the lack of a proper journal to keep track of what the player was doing.

True, I like the artic looking area. Would love to see a new Obivilion Gate looking area in DLC.

Yeah the environment is what they do better than others.....and......thats about it.

obviously, open-world with an actual meaningful world.

when compared to a gameworld as drab and worthless as gta the true nature of a living, breathing world like skyrim demands recognition.

gta4 is the perfect example, since, the actual world was about as hollow as you can possibly get. no interaction, no meaning, no anything.

Just because it's a large world doesn't mean it's the best world design.

A small game like Okami has an extremely beautiful world design.

Wind Waker had beautiful world design with a great sense of distance.

Its not because of how big it is but because of how well done it is. the fact that its huge just makes it that much better. I loved okamis art style but if skyrim was the same size as okami i would still think skyrims was more impressive.

How well it's done? Graphically, yes it's quite amazing.

But it doesn't feel alive.

i'm on the 360 and all my remarks are based on this fact.

"doesn't feel alive" ?? are you kidding?

give me games on the 360 that beat the tes and fallout games, as far as, alive-ness.

I think its OK considering some of the other single player RPG games in recent times. Dragon Age 2 for instance; The entire game would fit inside whiterun alone, and the NPC count is atrocious in that game. Remeber also that a fair bit of the world of Skyrim is interactive, there are plants to pick creatures to catch, animals to hunt, monsters to battle etc. and you chose how any when it happens. Many other RPG games dont even bother with this and simply use "random" encounters that appear out of nowhere to commence battle.

Of course to my mind, the game needs a lot more NPC's just milling around to make it feel really like a world.

except eve online... that IS a sandbox

New Vegas is more alive than Skyrim.

"Alive" is not limited to simply seeing random elk and deer prance about the wilderness, having flowers to pick, fish to catch and hearing the stupidly redundant "I work with Belethor at the General Good store."

"Alive" is a feeling the entire world achieves, from NPCs to foliage to scenic landscapes, and every single time I pass by an NPC in the game it feels like a dead, cold world, populated by machines.

I've made a Khajitt, a Dark Elf, a High Elf, an Orc and a Nord. Everything felt the damn same. There was no trial and tribulations for being a Khajitt or a Dark Elf, there was no having to convince people that I was not a thieving cat (even though I was) through reputation and deed or honeyed words.

Skyrim, being as it is an open world "RPG" has to hit higher standards than the normal linear Final Fantasy.

It doesn't. Thus the game world doesn't feel as alive as say, the Witcher, or Okami. Those games hit their marks, Skyrim continuously gives us a populace made out of cardboard.

I dunno, as I walk down the dusty road (I walk everywhere btw, literal toggle walk on and move at 1mph) the flowers swaying in the wind, the branches groaning with protest as they bend in its might. The stream near by rushing down the steep slopes as salmon fight their way up it to spawn. I hear the birds chirping, my armor clinking and clanking with my movements, the sounds echoing off the mountain side with each loud step. I notice a shadow over head, turning I see a hawk fly above, my heart slows as I return to my walk the fear of a dragon leaving me. I notice ahead a buck and doe drinking from the river, a butterfly passing between brings me back to attention of my surrounds. Suddenly I notice the sound of another set of footsteps, I turn just it time to see a bandit lunging at me with his sword. What shall I do?

See, THAT is how I feel while playing Skyrim. The game doesn't seem alive? I just don't get that, the scene I depicted above is something like a book and that was a real experience from the game. I honestly think the big problem is people just don't use their imagination. They rush around using fast travel, not really paying attention to what anyone says and doesn't even bother to take the time to read anything. Or people pretend to be roleplayers, not that they are doing it to be hurtful or anything, but they think by having rules, and reading stuff that they are roleplaying.

My tip for roleplay is thus. You should feel like a person in this world, like each breath you take is in that world, smelling it, seeing it, tasting it. You got to feel like you underground and this weight of the gravity of things. Dragons are coming back, death is the end, you got to feel fear for yourself because you feel tiny in this world. When you see a shadow on the ground and your heart starts racing and you spin snapping your head up to the sky thinking to yourself 'Oh f***", when you can actually sit down and forget about your real life problems and focus on the game that it feels like you are there that is when you have achieved immersion, true roleplaying.

However if it feels like you are playing a game with rules, you are doing it wrong.

Thus is what I mean when I just think that people really don't understand the mindset of this game. It's not about being the best of the best, despite it's rewards. It is here to offer people a world in which they can lose themselves and live in a fantasy. No other game can do that.

Eve is an mmo.

Read what I posted above.

A living world is not limited to random deer prancing about the country side.

I can't role play having to sneak into Whiterun as a Khajitt because the world as a whole doesn't give me the sense that I need to despite telling me through lore and narrative that I should have to.

I can't role play actually having a conversation with NPCs to earn those Speechcraft perks because the game gives me nothing to work with.

Skyrim is not Dungeons & Dragons. Imagination is far more needed in D&D because there's no world or characters built for us except through imagination. Skyrim, in many places, forces the player to have to rely on their imagination because many things were not given to them to make the world feel alive. Even a simple "hey, cat... what is your business in the city?" whenever I try to enter a new town would give more life than what current Skyrim does because it would have the world recognize what I am. In Dungeons & Dragons if you play a surface Drow you are going to face those things and have to use imaginative ways to handle situations. In Skyrim I can just stroll right into Solitude wearing a Stormcloak outfit as a Khajitt and no one says a damn thing.

new vegas is a masterpiece. so i might have to withdraw myself. and, btw, fallout3 dominates, lol.

skyrim and all the gamesas games dominate the 360, as far as, all that 'alive' and real stuff.

Not completely.

As I understand it, the Witcher 2 (which is going to be on 360) has a very much living and breathing world.

I would say red dead. That is one amazing game. In a way I think that world feels more alive due to it's population. Same thing with assassins creed. They have a lot more random npcs. That is one of the flaws that there is with giving everyone a speaking part and catering to the poor ram of the consoles. Maybe next ES will have a much larger population.

Oh, I totally feel like Solik there, this was first game who actually allowed me to 'feel' it..

But, I also play cat like Eric and I see these shorcomings. We have to live with a fact that this game was made to be played by nord. Still, with a bit of imagination I can explaIn why I dont have to much troubles in cities. My Raksha is an archer, and in times of dragon attacks every bow is precious. And with things like Raksa being named Thane and whispers about Rasha beeing dragonborn, most people just doesn't know what to think of her so they choose to keep those racist comment to themselws and treat me normally.

And I have hell of the time by bringing a lot of cats to Whiterun just to annoy local racists

Yeah if you go into an Imperial city dressed as a Stormcloak you should get attacked, and if you're a Khajiit you should be at least stopped from time to time and have to make some attempt to talk about why you're allowed in the city.