What is Steam to Fallout:New Vegas? : Fallout: New Vegas

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:04 pm

deluxxe...it's 'ridiculous', and it's useless because it's not needed for anything, fnv would run fine without it, your pc would run fine without it...it's not like drivers, OS...things you actually need to play games and run your pc. it's spyware with more perks.

Mystical Cheese Muncher...hate is an emotion, said time and again it's not an emotional issue, it's a practical/logical one. whether or not steam tries to become the de facto digital distro standard is irrelevant. there's always a way around it...and with steam being such an utter failure in the protection market...don't really have to add anymore after that eh?

i like beth, obsidian even with all the bugs from rushing the game out rocks too, great storylines in fnv. i support beth/obsidian...not steam, it provides nothing, does nothing useful, isn't necessary and actually causes more issues than the game would have without it. but, as it's been shown here...if people 'like' something...facts are tossed aside in favor of emotion and rationalizations. no one has actually tried to refute any points...because they can't be, several attempted insults, trolling, etc...repeating the same thing over and over as if somehow that negates facts. it doesn't. game sales by the far the most repeated...when they're not sales at all...since you own nothing. they're lease events.

edit: an addendum

Spoiler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software)

Statistics collection
Steam collects and reports anonymous metrics of its usage, stability, and performance. With the exception of Valve's hardware survey, most collection occurs without notifying the user or offering an opt-out. Some of these metrics are available publicly, such as what games are being played or statistics on player progress in certain games. Valve has also used information from these statistics to justify implementing new features in Steam, such as the addition of a defragmentation option for game caches. Announced on July 15, Steam will soon start offering users to allow Steam to collect the details of what programs are installed on their system which are listed within the Windows' Programs and Features control panel.

System failure
It is necessary to validate every Steam game online, whether purchased via Steam itself or installed via a retail disc, the first time it is played, although an offline mode is available.

According to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, Steam's availability is not guaranteed and Valve is under no legal obligation to release an update disabling the authentication system in the event that Steam becomes permanently unavailable.

Despite this, Gabe Newell, CEO of Valve, said in a post on the Steam User Forums that "Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available." He added, "We've tested disabling authentication, and it works."

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

some nice excerpts...

Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.

C. NO GUARANTEES.

VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).

10. EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES

A. EXCLUSIVE REMEDY -- STEAM AND THE SOFTWARE.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND THEIR AFFILIATES LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.

never ~~buying~~ leasing a steam related product again

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:49 am

I am wondering why the need for another program running, i.e. steam. It seems to be welded to Fallout New Vegas. I tried to uninstall steam and New Vegas went out with it. So I tried to reinstall FNV off my DVD I bought and it's downloading the whole program from the steam website instead of installing it off the DVD, at a measly 1Mbit/sec. I don't like programs that take over like a "unsolicited testamonial". Will FNV run by itself? Why won't my game load off the DVD?

This seems to be the sure way to make it install from the DVD. Hopefully you find it between all the Steam debate drivel.

1. Load Steam and Select the Library
2. Right click the game -> "Delete Local Content"
3. Insert the disc into your DVD drive
4. Close Steam
5. Go to Start -> Run and type in--

"C:\Program Files\Steam\Steam.exe" -install E:

Make sure to replace the path to Steam with the path to your Steam.exe. Replace the letter "E" with your DVD drive letter. Then press OK.

The installation should now use the files in the DVD rather than downloading them from the internet now.

Credit to http://geekmontage.com/texts/fallout-new-vegas-game-fixes-crashes-audio-issues-lag-saving/ I didn't feel like writing it all from scratch.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:41 pm

MikeMaximus:

Thanks for the straight syntax. The install from the DVD is WAY faster than the download way. Like 10 minutes compared to however long it took to download. I got tired of waiting for it so I left and came back later. Curious as to why they made it download when the DVD is sitting the drive. Is it supposed to be a more updated version?

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:42 am

To the steam haters, why argue about it, your opinions of steam are not going to change bethesdas mind about using steam.

It's too late for FONV, but perhaps they'll consider not tying their game into Steam next time. Steam is great as a method of digital distribution but I strongly dislike being forced into using it when I buy a physical retail version of a game.

Bethesda is not going to spend thousands of dollars just so the minority can have their offline mode, and here's something to think about if bethesda was not using steam they would be using securom their past DRM, and more gamers hate securom than steam, considering securom installs hidden files in your O/S and registry entries, and modern securom contains more evil things like limited installs and needing to be online to activate your game. Steams not so bad since it can be removed fairly easily if you don't want it unlike securom...

Disabling Steam integration shouldn't be that difficult - certain elements of the community seem to have done so already with little trouble & they don't even have the source code.

As for SecuROM... it's not necessarily a bad thing. Its behavior/features depends entirely on the publisher as each implementation only has whatever features the publisher chooses to use. It doesn't embed itself rootkit-style into a user's system or require online activation etc. unless the publisher wants it to have those features. The SecuROM implementation that EA used in BFBC2 & MOH is good- it lets the user decide during install between either the disc check *or* online activation, both versions only run while the game is running and neither version installs hidden files or embeds itself into the user's system etc.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:50 pm

As many of my friends know, I can only be contacted via steam. Back when i bought Modern Warfare 2 I didnt like the idea i had to have this 'steam' program running...since then they have updated steam and made it useful and its one of the first things i load each morning.

No matter what Im doing on the computer now, I have access to internet, email and a chat which is great for big game like New Vegas where i might have a 12 hour session on a game and Im not blocked out fro mthe world anymore.

Steam is the future, and before people commet.....Steam has actually helped attack piracy as new release games are avaialbe straight away through steam for users on download, which is a reason why some people pirate game, convience. Would you have as big a urge to priate a game if you have a game store right at your figertips already? of course not, look up some facts on it some time rather then just forming opinions....there is alot of info on this subject.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:11 pm

Have no problem at all with Steam and can't really see the point of complaining too much about it, its not going anywhere and is a fine distribution method for games and for online gaming. For everyone who is adamantly against it there are hundreds of users to whom its a non issue. Just the way of PC gaming in the future I think.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:09 pm

And the least effective one as was shown shortly after release.

Steam is actually the most effective DRM, as it prevents day zero piracy. All other DRM will be cracked before the game even hits retail shelves.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:29 pm

I only use Steam for Modern Warfare 2. I have other games on steam as well but that is just because I was too lazy to go buy the disc, or was only offered through steam (Shattered Horizon, Alien Swarm, etc) And before you say I am not a gamer, I have over $1000 in hard copy games and I spent over $1200 on a computer to play said games on.

I prefer physical copies that I can install at any time, anywhere, without an internet connection if necessary.

Congratulations, you have 15 retail priced games and a mediocre computer. That's the exact qualifications you need to get your gamer license.

Steam is awesome, deal with it. It's not their fault Beth/Obs dropped the ball with implementation.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:40 am

Ok. Thanks for setting everyone straight.

Its a tool to get and play games. It works pretty good for me. YMMV of course.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:15 am

Hate to break it to you deadspacex you are being pretty emotional about steam, you seem to view steam as a DRM method and paranoid statistics gathering only, steam is much more than that, sure i will admit that steam gathers statistics on people but valve make that information available to http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey Not very secretive ehhh ?? If valve were selling our statistics to company's they wouldn't have them plastered on a web page for everyone to see for free !!!

And i hate to break it to you but when you "buy" a game / movie / music in physical form you never actually own it, just like with digital distribution all you are doing is buying a licence to use the item from the manufacturer. ooohhh scarey... of course its very doubtful that a suit from a company is going to appear at your door and say "your licence is revoked, please hand over our software" but technically if they wanted to they could.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:48 am

I don't mind steam but my problem is ownership. Yeah, we can argue that you do own it but all you have to do it reinstall cause you registered the game on steam. But I like having my own copy in hand. No I don't pirate software. I just like owning it just in case. In case of what you might ask well. 1. for some money is tight and that means some luxuries have to go like the internet. Weather we like it or not the internet is a luxury not a right. 2. I love formatting my computer every 6 months. I hate to have to revert to loading steam every time. What if I don't want to load steam this time around. 3. I don't know just the matter that I would love to pay for something and have it physically in my possession. I like with getting paid at work. I hate direct deposit I rather see my check then not see it. And what if something happened to the bank computer system (STEAM).

I don't know Its just my opinion.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:58 am

I don't mind steam but my problem is ownership. Yeah, we can argue that you do own it but all you have to do it reinstall cause you registered the game on steam. But I like having my own copy in hand. No I don't pirate software. I just like owning it just in case. In case of what you might ask well. 1. for some money is tight and that means some luxuries have to go like the internet. Weather we like it or not it a luxury not a privilege. 2. I love formatting my computer every 6 months. I hate to have to revert to loading steam every time. What if I don't want to load steam this time around. 3. I don't know just the matter that I would love to pay for something and have it physically in my possession. I like with getting paid at work. I hate direct deposit I rather see my check then not see it. And what if something happened to the bank computer system (STEAM).

I don't know Its just my opinion.

Its a valid opinion. I like steam don't know if Id call myself a "fan" though. I like how it shows me when I log in what my buddies are playing and I like the social aspect of it. I've only bought a few games from Steam, Torchlight, Left For Dead 2, and Crysis. I'd rather have a disc for ease of install but I will use Steam and they have great sales all the time on games. Heck I got L4D2 for 6 bucks on there, great deal.

DRM or piracy has no bearing on my like or dislike of Steam, that's for the publishers to worry about.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:26 am

Mystical Cheese Muncher hate to break it to you...but you DO own it, (edit: software other than steams related, books, music, etc) you can resell it and someone else can use it. i made a point, several, the steam is completely useless, not necessary in any way, shape or form to play games. you do not need it, however you are forced to use it whether you want to or not yes? there is literally nothing that steam brings to the gaming experience that is needful, and in fact detracts from that experience by not allowing you to own anything...did you even read steams user agreement? your only litigation or dispute option with valve is to cancel your account. and they can cancel any time they choose, leaving you with nothing.

naivety is cute in kids, not in advlts...valve is out to make money, period. they don't care about you or anyone else. that's why there's so many disclaimers and etc in the user agreement, you are literally nothing but another subscriber that boosts their prestige and publishing power. demographics. so what if it's publicly available? you think that's all that steam tracks? it's a mem monitor as well, access to everything. if you trust them fine...

emotional? somewhat...irritating that only a few have actually managed to say anything worthwhile, while the rest tend to sound like parrots...or a herd of sheep all bleating the same tune. and just can't believe that so many people are happy to spend so much and get nothing in return, no guarantees, no contracts...literally nothing, and then don't mind giving away all their personal info. for something that's not even necessary, it's not a driver, it's not an OS...it's not even a game engine...and it's forced on people around the world. would you rent a house with that kind of lease agreement? kicked out whenever the owner felt like it? no guarantees they won't burn it down? that everything in the house is theirs? no matter if you spent money on it or not.

valve is responsible to no one but themselves. least of all you...the loyal fans. sorry, just can't get behind anything so blatantly self serving.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:35 am

Some are comfortable paying for what Steam offers. I payed 6 bucks to Steam for L4D2 and I got a very fun game that makes me happy when I play it. Seems like both me and Steam came out ahead. I didn't have to pay 20 bucks at Best Buy for one. Sure they could cut me off at their whim, but they don't seem to do that often from what I've heard and my experience.

I understand your philosophical point but its not that important to me in this particular case. I would rather you could just install it and not do Steam if you don't want to, but its just not that big a deal to me. You mileage obvious varies.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:53 pm

Deadspacex i hate to break it to you again but....

Bethesda Fallout 3 EULA

This LIMITED SOFTWARE WARRANTY AND LICENSE AGREEMENT (this "Agreement"), including the Limited Warranty and other special provisions, is a legal agreement between You (either an individual or an entity) and Bethesda Softworks LLC and ZeniMax Europe Limited (collectively, the "Owner") regarding this software product and the materials contained therein and related thereto. Your act of installing and/or otherwise using the software constitutes Your agreement to be bound by the terms of this Agreement.

Fallout New Vegas EULA

LICENSE. Subject to this Agreement and its terms and conditions, LICENSOR hereby grants you the non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to use one copy of the Software for your personal, non-commercial use on a single home or portable computer. The Software is being licensed to you and you hereby acknowledge that no title or ownership in the Software is being transferred or assigned and this Agreement should not be construed as a sale or transfer of any rights in the Software. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are reserved by LICENSOR and, as applicable, its licensors.

That doesn't sound like the consumer "owns" the fallout 3 or new vegas software

And if you look at the EULA for pretty much every single retail game you will find the exact same terminology !!!

The fact that EULA stands for End-user license agreement kinda gives it away that you don't actually own the game and just have a licence to use it

As for the ability to resell games, you better look at the EULA, reselling a game is against the terms you agree to when you install a game, therefore you can't legally resell it, why do you think there's not much in the way of a trade in market for PC games ?

As for your paranoia against valve, do you actually think they are going to steal private information off your computer ? if they were to steal personal, private information or put in a security hole in your computer they would be libel to get their butts sued ! I don't care if valve snoop on my activities, im a rather dull person and i don't do anything illegal or look at "strange" internet porm so if they find me interesting to snoop on they are welcome... Now the people who get all emotional and heated about the possibility of someone looking at their computers. i wonder what they are hiding to feeling panicky & paranoid about

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:42 am

naivety is cute in kids, not in advlts...valve is out to make money, period. they don't care about you or anyone else. that's why there's so many disclaimers and etc in the user agreement, you are literally nothing but another subscriber that boosts their prestige and publishing power. demographics. so what if it's publicly available? you think that's all that steam tracks? it's a mem monitor as well, access to everything. if you trust them fine...

your passive aggressive way of personally insulting Steam users is getting boring.
if you are paranoid about info/stat tracking why are you even using a computer to type this? Shouldn't you be living in a cave somewhere, killing animals for food with sharpened sticks and drinking water out of a river? Wait... how did you even buy your computer? Cuz by your logic you wouldn't buy something from a company that *GASP* MAKES MONEY!

I am not Naive, i am fully aware of the Steam service and what it provides. I will happily fork over money to a service that conveniently provides what I want, whenever i want (legally ;-)

.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:47 am

Deadspacex i hate to break it to you again but....

Bethesda Fallout 3 EULA

Fallout New Vegas EULA

That doesn't sound like the consumer "owns" the fallout 3 or new vegas software

And if you look at the EULA for pretty much every single retail game you will find the exact same terminology !!!

The fact that EULA stands for End-user license agreement kinda gives it away that you don't actually own the game and just have a licence to use it

As for the ability to resell games, you better look at the EULA, reselling a game is against the terms you agree to when you install a game, therefore you can't legally resell it, why do you think there's not much in the way of a trade in market for PC games ?

As for your paranoia against valve, do you actually think they are going to steal private information off your computer ? if they were to steal personal, private information or put in a security hole in your computer they would be libel to get their butts sued ! I don't care if valve snoop on my activities, im a rather dull person and i don't do anything illegal or look at "strange" internet porm so if they find me interesting to snoop on they are welcome... Now the people who get all emotional and heated about the possibility of someone looking at their computers. i wonder what they are hiding to feeling panicky & paranoid about

I was with you until the old "If you have nothing to hide then it doesn't matter" argument to privacy. I have a lot of stuff on my computer that I don't want Valve having access too and its not strange internet porm.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:10 am

heh heh, you don't really have anything to worry about then, valve doesn't download your "personal" files, if it did you can bet that it would have been discovered and reported by now. All Steam monitors is what games you have, how often and long you play them, the hardware in your computer & your installed software (and you can usually opt out of that if you wish) ... usually when steam gathers data it will ask you if you wish to take part, it doesn't just do it.

Anyways if you truly have sensitive data you don't want anyone snooping on, it should be encrypted or on a usb drive. i never have important personal info just sitting about on my computer, not in case valve or a hacker breaks into my computer, more in case someone breaks into my house and takes my whole computer

That is more likely to happen than some random hacker or valve or google or whoever getting into your computer !

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:59 pm

heh heh, you don't really have anything to worry about then, valve doesn't download your "personal" files, if it did you can bet that it would have been discovered and reported by now. All Steam monitors is what games you have, how often and long you play them, the hardware in your computer & your installed software (and you can usually opt out of that if you wish) ... usually when steam gathers data it will ask you if you wish to take part, it doesn't just do it.

Anyways if you truly have sensitive data you don't want anyone snooping on, it should be encrypted or on a usb drive. i never have important personal info just sitting about on my computer, not in case valve or a hacker breaks into my computer, more in case someone breaks into my house and takes my whole computer

That is more likely to happen than some random hacker or valve or google or whoever getting into your computer !

Oh I know, I don't think Steam is rummaging through documents folder looking for [censored].

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:34 pm

Okay guys, I am in a similar situation to the original poster. For financial reasons, the only internet access I have is dialup and this is causing extreme problems with my install of FONV through steam. After a few hours steam installed and then it started to install the game from the disc. For some reason at some point it suspended the install - saying that it lost contact with the steam servers (WTF? It's installing from the disc, after verifying once it should finish the disc install without needing to maintain contact - and, no, the internet connection wasn't closed, the steam servers dropped the ball). When I tried to get it to continue the download it will only download the install from steam, not from the disc. After a week of overnight downloads (I turn steam off during the day so that I can actually use my internet for other purposes) it permanently suspended the download with 6772mb downloaded (out of 6920?).

Okay, so I uninstalled and tried to reinstall from the disc. Once again it got partly started on reinstalling from the disc and then suspended the install because the steam servers dropped the connection. Now it will - so far - only continue the install via download. I can't get it to uninstall (I left it trying to do so overnight last night and instead of uninstalling it downloaded 80mb of files) apparently until steam has decided that it is done with the install.

To me this is ridiculous. I purchased the game noting that on the box it said an internet connection is required through steam FOR ACTIVATION. To me, this is misleading advertising since steam is required for far more than activation. I have had plenty of other games that required internet activation and have not have anywhere near the troubles installing them that I have had with this complete SNAFU.

I truly appreciate the information that someone posted (previous page of the thread, so I don't recall your handle) on installing from the disc. I will see if I can get it to work that way - if I can ever get it to uninstall whatever it has installed without forcing me to go through another week of downloading before steam decides that I can uninstall). At least that person posted helpful information, as opposed to the constant "get a better computer, better connection, better life" drivel that so many feel that they have to post. If you can't post helpful advice, please do not respond to my post. Thank you.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:00 pm

Anyone who joins the bandwagon of "Steam is gay. It looks up your computer's private information!/It shouldn't be allowed to run in the background!" is a fool. Steam is the single best tool for PC gaming and nearly saved PC gaming from death.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:58 pm

i don't care anything about steam or game for windows live is better or anything like that.
now i can't even install the game i purchased. i followed all the friggin steps in the troubleshooting website (steampowered.com) and still it says that i have no internet connection or to steam server. this friggin post is solid prove i have internet connection. i have it like all the friggin time through the whole friggin day.
i hate this. but i love the fallout series and has been following ever since FO1.
So why the f does steam have to screw this up? i read that a lotta ppl are having problems installing / launching this game. i don't experience this with other games. some of those are installed through steam, yes, but not this time. like, wtf is going on? i sent emails to steam and posted questions to their CSO. eagerly waiting for their friggin answer right now. From where i bought my copy of the game, there is no return policy. so i might as well make the DVD in to a Frisbee n play with my dog if i can't install and play it. but i do hate the fact that they associate the game (which is not made by valve) so damn much to another software (steam). if they wanna do it, do it well for f's sake! now what am i supposed to do with this game?!

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:15 pm

One complaint I have about steam is that I do not feel that it should automatically logon everytime I start up my computer. I am sure that I am like many users in that I am not always playing games or thinking about playing games when I am on my computer. The default setting should be that you have to actively choose to connect to steam when you are ready to mess with your games, not for it to automatically do it on startup. JMO.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:12 am

One complaint I have about steam is that I do not feel that it should automatically logon everytime I start up my computer. I am sure that I am like many users in that I am not always playing games or thinking about playing games when I am on my computer. The default setting should be that you have to actively choose to connect to steam when you are ready to mess with your games, not for it to automatically do it on startup. JMO.

Go into the menu Steam->Settings, Interface Tab. Un-tick "Run Steam when my computer starts"

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:20 pm

Steam : FNV :: GFWL : FO3

[but worse]

mmmmm.

Steam : FNV :: stripsearch of all students every morning : high school

The ways around Steam for NV, depending on what your goals are by bypassing it, are either 100% legal for discussion and doing but a massive pain in the ass so therefore kinda not worth discussing, OR, they are a different means which are not allowed to be discussed on this message board per its rules.

For the average PC and internet user, way #1 isn't doable.

So there is kinda not too much to talk about except... that it is really unfortunate that there is no non-steam offering of this.