This i dont like being able to walk around like a god in games and have no fun...

They add more damage perks with the DLC's so the more perks we get to choose from the more perks we can choose to up our damage with weapons.
Sure enough we could leave aside any non-damage perks with 15 perk choices and go straight for the damage ones but even so the game will balance itself out in another way, that while you are a brutal war tank you do not have a lot of other talents.
But with 25 perk choices you can easily go for all the ones to up your damage and go for other talents.
It devalues the selection and specialization of perks to define ones character as more and more characters will become the same gray blob.
Especially skill wise.

The haters just have "Level 50" on the brain and it's all "OMFGIH!!!!!! The world IS ENDING!!!!!!"

Nobody is going to start at level 50. You're going to have to work towards it. Getting there too fast? I don't have that problem (with two recent characters at roughly 50 hours each, neither has progressed beyond level 35). I take my time going through the game and the level progression seems pretty natural to me. That's with all side faction quests complete (idolized with NCR, Boomers, Great Khans, FotA, and BoS), all vaults and related quests complete, the main quest carried *just* to the point where I have to pick a side and piss somebody off, both DLC completed, and most of the map (193 locations discovered for at least one of these guys) visited. And both are still different. One is Guns, Barter, Repair, Survival; the other is Explosives, Guns, Science, Barter. Int 6, no Educated perk, no Comprehension perk. I used books as I found them but did not seek them out.

I don't think level caps belong in games, so I'm quite happy that they are at least raising it to 50. Would be better if it was completely removed.

Hm really? So you would like to have all skills at 100 and be able to kill deathclaws with a fist punch...sounds really boring. Whats the point of role playing then if you cant have the skills where you want them exactly....

I think there is a way to balance the game well while still having a level 50 cap.

the first thing i would do is drastically decrease the amount of earned XP after level 20 and drastically increase the amount of needed XP after level 30. I'm talking something along the lines of 80% in both directions. This would hopefully bring it somewhat back to that original fallout level system where getting to level 9 or 10 felt like an accomplishment but grinding out to level 14 felt like a huge chore.

the second thing I would do is after level 30 all enemies will scale, not quite entirely with the player but in relation to their own strengths at their original levels. this way things like death claws and super mutant Masters with Big guns will still feel threatening.

the third thing I would do is cut down skill point gains on level up by 1/2 or 2/3 after level 20 and skill books will only give full benefit before you get 50 in a skill. Over 50 you would only get 2/3 points from a book and over 75 points you would only get 1/2 points per book.

the last thing i would do is make perks available only every 5th level after 20, so they stay somewhat of a choice.

I think doing something along those lines could really help to balance a level cap of 50. I for one like Leveling up. It's fun to progress your character and feel like they still have time to progress even at the end, but I also want the game to be even more of a challenge at level 50 as it was at level 15

Tell me one RPG who doesnt have level Cap




1. Overlords are part of the East Coast FEV mutants, not the West Coast ones
2.Do you really want more figth?

I agree with you and, that would be awesome.

Well disgea 3 has a level cap of 9999 does that count?

I agree with you, but:

I see it as a reward. The DLC is going to be level appropriate, so at level 30 Honest Hearts should still be a challenge. When you max out and return to the wasteland, yea you're gonna be tough, but for playing the game THAT long to get there, you deserve to have a little fun.

To me it seems level 50 is a bit much. Just my two cents.

49*10 is already 490 points, that means even a Intelligence 1 character can put 40 points on each skill, with average 25 then it would be 65, with Tagged skill at 80.......and that would be what it takes to not have a character full 100 in all skills.

I have the Increased Wasteland Spawns, A World of Pain, and MoMod (I think? it adds tons of new, tough stuff to kill) and routinely my buttocks are reddened in a couple shots by hordes of angry heavy weapon, large clawed critters gunning for me. Throw in an NPC that uses explosives and I am toast unless I use my noggin'.

O
Thankyou very much all for your comments! I understand more now why people are opposed to the level of 50, it allways helps when people discuss a topic in a coherent manner


I still dont understand completely. In my experience, as I level up, the creatures get more challenging also, so I cant see HOW or WHY that could be an issue? I am level 31 and the Deathclaws are still a challenge for me.


I'd allways assumed that the creatures levels increased in relation to the couriers. There are certain areas that are for more advanced charecters, and I had gathered that nothing had changed into regards to that.


For me, the game appears to be leveling with me, to an extent. Sure, Deathclaws are certainly easier to deal with at level 31 than 13, but tgh


Ok Im too drunk for logical discussion.

But thanks again all for your oppinions

That wasn't the point of my post. I did not at any point claim that such a thing existed. All I said was that I think there should be no level caps.

Or at least there should be one that is so high you can't actually reach it. Doesn't TES IV have a ridiculously high level cap?

And to... Ace? (I think) who asked the question... yes. Yes, I do enjoy being that powerful... after I earn the XP to get there. Because punching a Deathclaw into chunks with one strike is sweet, sweet revenge.

I wouldn't have a problem with it if they had about 5 more skills.

Nobody should be complaining. The trait will allow the players who want to cap their player, to cap them, and the players who desire to keep playing, to do so.
Anybody who complains about something like that is rather selfish in my eyes..

Why should we be lock away from another Trait just because we want a cap?

May as well add the xp multiplier slider then

LOL. Have any of you blokes ever actually played a real RPG. The whole idea of an RPG is to "level'n'loot", and you're complaining about more levels because it's ruining your RPG experience? If you don't like levelling, you're playing the wrong type of game.

I'm fine with becoming god of the Wasteland. The only problem with it is you get there too quickly. XP needed to level should be doubled. It's no good having maxed your levels halfway through the game.

Don't forget, on an open world wasteland, such as this, you don't have the luxury of a built in difficulty slider, like you do with dungeons, so yes, it will gradually become easier (unless you want the godawful Oblivion scaling system), or PITA bullet sponges.

Fallout 1 was balanced.
Fallout 2 was balanced.
Fallout Tactics was balanced.
Fallout 3 was unbalanced.
Fallout New Vegas was borderline balanced and now unbalanced.

No I'm on the right type of RPG franchise all right, it's the developers that are [censored] it up.
It's not that I don't like leveling up, but I don't want the game to become unbalanced just because of it.
Which is something that the first three got right and the latter two got horribly wrong.

Oh and Weightaholic, I am gimping myself now.
Been gimping myself for the last 2 months, only clothing, mid to low tier weapons and 10 stimpacks at most.

[edit]

I felt my post was random so:
I like leveling, I like being able to earn the points to distribute to get stronger, the problem in this is when it becomes too easy to level up and you get too strong.
Fallout has been about getting stronger, sure, but it hasn't been in line with other RPG's of "become a god and kick ass" to me.
It has been about creating a character that has her skills and talents which she is proficient with and to have her drawbacks too.
It has been about always finding a challenge, no matter what level and gear I'm at/using.
Fallout 3 and New Vegas broke this for me.
"Then you're playing the wrong type of game."
Am I?
I'm playing Fallout am I not?
Fallout didn't allow me to become a master of all trades demi-god before, it's only recently that this change has manifested itself.
That's why I'm resentful of it.

Sure we can get the balance if we gimp ourselves, I just did for the last two months and the combat became far more fun and the character was far more characterized in her skills and drawbacks.
But it also locks me out of content, I can't use YCS because it's too powerful, neither can I use RCW+, Holorifle or Gatling Laser.
I cannot wear anything but the lowest tier [Light] armor and clothing.
I am not allowed to pick up 3 delicious super stimpacks which I just found after going through tons of enemies.
Why should it be this way?
It wasn't like this in the older games.
I could pick up every single stimpack and still get brutalized in combat.
I could use the best armor and best weapon and still have enemies get in their lucky strikes and kill me.

So am I playing the wrong type of game?
IMO, no, I'm playing Fallout and there are certain expectations I have from it: Balance.

At least in New Vegas they did do one thing better in honest hearts....

They didn't use insane bullet sponges with silly unbalanced attacks like the Reavers and Albino Scorpions of Fallout 3 to offset the level increases. Instead. they gave the tribals AMRs and the bears and geckos numbers and attack power with greater spawn rates. It's a small step in the right direction, but a step that way none the less.

Now if they can patch the Mojave so that once you pass 30 the spawn rates and numbers increase with better armed opponents, I say the in game economy be damned, it's screwed by 30 anyway.

-edit- Oh and the economy in Fallout 1 and 2 were just as bad in the later game. Worse actually since on a lot of vendors you could pickpocket caps you spent right back from the vendor, ahhhh I loved shopping in San Francisco....

Fixed that for you. No charge.

Given how vociferously you complain about the game, I rerally wonder - are you in the right type of RPG franchise?

Levelling is a part of RPGs. Repeat it like the mantra it is. If you take out levelling, you're left with something like Grand Theft Auto, which, whilst a great game, is NOT an RPG. So what would you have the developers do? Make it "less RPG"? Given that Bethesda, and Fallout 3 revived a dying (or dead) franchise, I wouldn't say they got it horribly wrong at all. There's a difference between getting it horribly wrong and not doing it in a way you personally approve of, which appears to be something that a lot of people here are unable to draw a distinction between (and it's starting to get both frustrating and more than a little offensive).

Well, to be honest, I don't care how you want to play, but doubling XP needed to level would mean you wouldn't feel the need to do this (unless you indulged in a lot of grinding, in which case you obviously wanted to level), so the problem would be solved.

you could tip the scales in your favor pretty heavily in Fallout 1. At level 14 with hardened power Armor, the turbo plasma rifle, faster sequencing, and rapid fire the only thing I was scared of was a critical strike from a super mutant with a minigun or plasma rifle. Anything else, including the mother deathclaw, were pretty easy pickings.

The only reason it was really balanced was 1) there was almost no point to being that high level because the game can be completed before even level 5 2) taking that long to get all that stuff takes too long and gives you the worst ending for certain things.

I'm not through with my fallout 2 play through but after my 4th fallout 1 play through, certain parts of 1 can be even easier than some parts of New Vegas.

The books were definitely way more unbalanced in 1 than in any other fallout game to date. Putting any points in science/repair/first aid/outdoorsman was stupid because there was a literal endless supply of them.

I kinda agree with you if you mean going back to a leveling model where max level is nigh unattainable and almost pointless, just as long as the option for character growth is still there.

1. I never picked Faster Sequencing, Rapid Fire or picked up the hardened power armor for most of the time either, was easy to avoid the minimal gamebreaking items/perks to achieve balance where as in the newer games you have to avoid maybe a third of the games content.

2. I never finished Fallout 1 before level 5, never felt the need to rush through the game, I enjoyed taking my time in it and solving quests.

3. They stop at 70 or 90 or something and it's only in FO1 IIRC where one can break the game by buying an endless supply of them. Even so I've only ever bought that many books once, rest of my playthroughs I've just used books I've found, looted or been given, never bought.

So yeah, if you want to break Fallout 1 you can do so, but it's far easier to avoid breaking the game there than it is in FO3 and FONV.


Thanks.


Read my updated previous post.


1. So what if it's part of an RPG? You could still level up to 25 then cap it there, you've gotten your levels and now the game is capped in order to bring balance to the table. Doesn't make it any less of an RPG because the leveling up stops at some point and it definitely does not make it into an 3rdPP Sandbox Action Shooter. (Scratch that, New Vegas can be that but it doesn't mean it loses it's RPG aspect)

2. Is it subjective? (I honestly can't see how the earlier games are unbalanced and how the latter games are balanced. The power armor in Fallout 1 did unbalance it but that was one single armor. Then there was the Sniper perk and Slayer, but I never took either of the two nor reached that level most of the time either to pick them.)
[edit - Well there are a couple of things like what Transmission suggested in his post about Fallout 1, but those things are easy to avoid. Hell, I don't think I've ever picked Rapid Fire. Problem is that while you can break the game in FO1 you can easily avoid breaking it too whereas in the newer games I have to avoid one hell of a lot of things to avoid unbalancing it.]


Doubling exp needed for leveling up would be a very welcome change and might make me not pick the lvl 30 cap trait in OWB.

[edit]

Are we offtopic now? (Overall balance instead of lvl 50 balance in New Vegas?)

Well a lot of people don't like that because it's not fun thats why we have call of dum dum.

I thought fo3 had good balance at the level 20 cap before broken steel.