Because of Alduin rising, patterns breaking, clashes between dragonborn and dragons, it makes sense that there could be a "Dragon Break" when linear time is disrupted and returns to the nonsensical kalpa before Mundus was created. What does that mean for us? Well it means that a couple hundred years ago, a hero of the emperor was in 6 places at once, and let 6 different groups tale control of the Illiac Bay....at the same damn time! And no one realized it until all six timelines came back into one. This is called "The Warp in the West". I'm pretty sure this is going to happen again. Both the empire and Ulfric will regain skyrim in different timelines, and when they converge they'll end up compromising in the confusion. Likely Ulfric will be High King but remain part of the empire. Or some other variation.

I expect that the victor of the war will not be referenced in the future. It could be something like "The Stormcloak rebellion lead to a wat against the Legion. However, the war ended with the help of the Dragonborn, who then helped in the war against the Thalmor". Something like that

Based on the other things that happen in other faction quests and side quests, to me the only cannon story would be the Stormcloaks winning and the Empire being dissolved. I think the time of the Empire is over and what will replace it is a world being ruled by the much darker and sinister Dominion.

I did note that regardless of who you help win the war it never really ends. Ulfric is never crowned and the enemy camps are still out there. It will be very easy for the Lore to conclude that the loser in your game fought back, the ruler or general you helped was defeated and the final result is the opposite of what you supported in the game. Kudos to Bethesda for that setup.

Personally I hope that the peace talk route is the canon choice, or at least something happens where they stop fighting each other and both go after the Thalmor.

@Braziius,

The Empire wasn't always portrayed as militaristic a-holes. The empire is just honest about what they are. They know that sometimes you have to play dirty to get things done for the greater good. Uriel Septim was a master manipulator, yet everything he did was for the greater good of Tamriel and, yes, to make the empire stronger. Even Titus Mede escaped The Imperial City during the battle, seemingly because he was a coward, only to come back with a bigger army and personally fight off the Dominion.

Thats why I like the Empire, they have their problems but they know the unfortunate things one must do to get things done in the civilized world. They're much more relatable and big-picture oriented than the romantic, short-sighted, immature concept of the Stormcloaks. Just my take on it of course.

None, as far as I'm aware OP there are no plans to introduce firearms into the game...

For the Empire and Stormcloaks to really join together and fight the Thalmor as a united group may actually be possible.

However you have to think about the hatred brewing between the two factions. Simply speaking to the soldiers in the camps will result in lot of trash-talking and hatred amongst the two groups.

Ulfric Stormcloak, at least what I believe, is fighting for power and his throne. The Stormcloaks themselves are fighting for what they believe Ulfric is fighting for.

From what I can gather, the Stormcloaks are fighting for:
--In the Great War, a large number of Nords died fighting for the Empire. They gave their lives so that the Imperial Empire could survive. The Nords are a proud people, mind that.
--Suddenly - in a position of strength (after retaking their capital), the Empire surrendered!
--Basically, what happened was the Empire surrendered. This made the Nords mad because thousands of Nords died in the war, only for the Empire to surrender.
--To make matters worse, the Empire also banned Talos, which the Nords so religiously adored.
--The Stormcloaks are pretty much like "So, after so many of our kinsman died for your Empire, you're simply surrendering AND outlawing our worship of Talos? Why should we serve and fight for an Empire who lets our kinsman die in vain?"

Of course what choice did the Empire have? It was part of that Concordat. Had the Empire not agreed to outlaw Talos - thousands more Nords would have died for the Empire as it crumbled and fell (of course, this is arguable - as the Empire surrendered while in a winning position).

But if the Empire said "Hey Ulfric, you and your Stormcloaks join us, and we'll fight the Thalmor to restore the worship of Talos", I am sure the Stormcloaks would do so. Of course, what Ulfric would say is arguable.

Ulfric killed Torygg in a fair duel - after Torygg willingly accepted. He was making a statement. Why should Skyrim be ruled by a High King who can't even defend himself against another Jarl? Clearly Torygg was not the right leader, he was only there because the Empire wanted him to be there. I can see where Ulfric is coming from, he just wants the Nords to be ruled by a strong ruler and wise Jarls, while at the same time allowing the Nords to be free.

You make some good points, but I just wanted to mention two things:

One, the Empire didn't surrender. We actually turned the tide of the war and demolished the Dominion. But in tbe process we used all our men and resources. The Dominion was exhausted too, but they were so zealous and insane they were willing to keep going, so we were forced to sign a treaty with them. Contrary to what biased npcs tell you, the Dominion is likely struggling like the empire is.

Second, Ulfric DID duel Toryyg, but keep several things in mind. Ulfric hadn't tried negotiating with the high king. Npcs say that Toryyg admired Ulfric and likely would have listened to him if given the time. The High King also had no choice but to fight, else he'd have to give up the throne. Toryyg was considered a boy by Nord standards, barely an advlt, while Ulfric is a seasoned war veteran who uses game-breaking dragon magic. No High King could likely stand against him. Toryyg had no chance of winning, but he fought regardless because he believed in the empire. Ulfric waltzed in, didn't negotiate, challenged him, shouted him down and finished him off. So yes it was a fair duel, but what does this say about Ulfric? Sure Ulfric had the traditional right to kill the high king, but was he morally right?

Bethesda's tradition is that the aftermath is decided by DLC/expansions. So until we've played all of Skyrim's DLC, there's no telling.

My prediction? It will be an outcome that's not even shown in the game - the one where you manage to get them to agree to a ceasefire, and then never join either side after Alduin's defeat. That way, Bethesda can think up any outcome they want, since the other two options were alternate possible outcomes that never came to be (but we got to see nontheless).

I think it's interesting that all the jarls can be replaced during the course of the war, except

I think it will be something along the line:

I imagine it will be recorded something like this;


"In 4E 201, the Nords of Skyrim were plunged into a bitter Civil War between those loyal (though not necessarily supporting of it) to the Empire and it's banning of Talos worship and those uniting under Ulfric Stormcloak and his campaign to rid Skyrim of Imperial rule and restore the worship of Talos. The war was fought viciously, with each side making many gains and losses, both General Tullis of the Legion and Ulfric Stormcloak of the Stormcloaks were slain in the fighting. Before an actual conclusion (there were claims of victory from both sides) could be reached the Thalmor were expelled from Skyrim by the legendary Dragonborn (second DLC I believe), sparking a diplomatic row that would lead to the second Great War between the Aldmeri Dominon and the Empire.

A Warp in the North.
Everybody won the war.

Personally I think who "wins" the civil war in Skyrim will be irrelevant and all that will be referenced is that "the dragonborn ended it." I figure the Mede dynasty is done, and the entire empire will collapse into chaos again. The dragonborn, leading a united Skyrim, will found a new empire and dynasty, defeating the Thalmor and uniting Tamriel once more. Maybe the next game will take place in another province during this war or after it. Either way, considering how important the last dragonborn was, I figure its a given that he or she ends up on the throne in the Imperial City.

First: where is there evidence that Ulfric did not try "negotiating" with Torygg? I mean, aside from the statements of NPCs who don't like the fact that Ulfric challenged and killed him, or did so without having first done something else that they don't think did.

Second: Torygg was the High King, Ulfric only a Jarl. It was Torygg's responsibility to lead the country, to make his hopes and plans for Skyrim clear to his subordinate territorial rulers, and to seek them out for counsel, guidance, support, and "negotiation" when and if he so desired. If he was interested in the idea of independence for Skyrim, it was his job to make that known to Ulfric and everybody else, not his Jarls' job to try and tell the High King what he should and shouldn't do or should and shouldn't believe. IIRC it's mentioned that Ulfric had spoken passionately in favor of secession at a previous moot at which (presumably) Torygg and all the other Jarls were present, and I think it's safe to say that his position on the issue has never been a secret. If Torygg was willing to take Skyrim in that direction at all, it was his responsibility to seek Ulfric out for support, not the other way around.

IMO the idea that Torygg needed or was waiting for someone else to lead him in one direction or the other just contributes to the image of him as a weak and inefffectual leader who will dance on the strings of anyone who is bigger and stronger... whether it would be the Empire or Ulfric really makes no difference.

hm? who is cannon? and what has he got to do with skyrim?

im really confused :/

Elisif stated that Torygg would probably have joined Ulfric's cause, as he sympathised with the Stormcloaks. However Ulfric didn't even try and gain his support he just wanted to make a statement by killing him in a duel. It's even more propaganda as the Empire starts claiming a traditional Nord duel is murder.

Not to mention that Ulfric first using the voice occurred like twenty years earlier. So its not like anyone who bothered paying attention didn't already know he could.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

I get the impression that just about everyone in Skyrim "sympathizes" with Ulfric. The problem is that most won't actually do anything but sympathize. Killing Torygg in a duel was the biggest statement Ulfric could make. "You're either with me, or against me."

I know, I'm just replying to the comment saying where is the evidence that Ulfric didn't try negotiating with Torygg. He didn't. However I still support him and his cause (even though I won the Civil War for the Empire, biggest mistake of my life), you can't win wars and respect through being nice. Sometimes you just have to make a statement.

I haven't sided with the Imperials yet in any one of my games. I get close, but I can't bring myself to do it. I either side with the Stormcloaks or avoid the civil war quest line all together. Trying to kill me is one thing, I have an ex-wife so I'm used to that, but try to keep me from worshiping Talos? Especially when he drops my shout recharge time by a fifth? Sorry Biggus dikeus, but you can get your Incontinentia Buttocks out of Skyrim, and take Sillius Soddus with you.

According to that Redguard shop assisstant in Solitue, Torygg sounds like an Empire brown-noser.

Torygg wasn't unsure about who to side with. He was loyal to the imperials. He made it clear since day one that Skyrim has and always will be in the empire. What I meant was that he admired Ulfric and I'm pretty sure it's said by several npcs that Ulfric could have negotiated more before he ran in throats-blazing. Ulfric and him and could have come to an understanding. Even if they didn't, his actions would be more forgiveable if he tried harder to negotiate. Just because something is tradition doesn't mean it had to be done. True nords use their discretion when it comes to these duels, and know when they'd be unessesary / unfair / would plunge the nation into chaos. If that weren't the case, then few high kings would make it to old age, because someone would challenge them because they're "too weak to rule". Ulfric did this in reverse. He didn't use discretion and he killed a boy whose reign was just beginning. He always talks about how it was him "making a statement" by killing Torygg. So in other words, he took the life of a boy barely out of his teens to say "See? He couldn't kill a seasoned war-veteran skilled in the voice! He is definitely an incompetant ruler unworthy of politics!" Sorry if I sound rude, as I'm not directing my rudeness toward you, it's just that things like that get to me. To me, Ulfric is a child. A true nord wouldn't use their own traditions as an excuse to kill a man who wasn't even a warrior. I hate when people paint themselves as "men of the people" when really they're short sighted and immature. Thats how Ulfric comes off to me. Just my opinion of course, and please dont take it personally like a lot of people do. Just a friendly video game debate haha

In a sense, yes.

In the game, Ulfric told me that the Jarl's of Skyrim were once strong, decisive leaders and the High King was the strongest and most decisive. Ulfric then stated that many of the High King's of Skyrim were hand-picked by the Empire after a while, something which went against the old ways of course.

Was Torygg the strongest and most decisive Jarl of Skyrim? No. He was not.

Is Ulfric the strongest and most decisive Jarl of Skyrim? That's arguable. He DOES have the power of the Voice, which gives him a pretty large boost. He's also a war veteran, and managed to get the people to follow him, and has created a rebellion. In my mind - yes, Ulfric is indeed the strongest and most decisive Jarl of Skyrim.

I've also never once heard Ulfric mention he SHOULD be the High King... I do remember him saying something about Torygg's wife(Elisif?) being the High Queen, and that the Moot was not entirely agreed to promoting Ulfric to High King.

But to me, if Ulfric is the strongest and most decisive of the Jarls, he is indeed the rightful heir to the throne.

EDIT: As well, Ulfric plans to fight the Aldmeri Dominion. He says so. So he doesn't care about fighting the Empire - just wants to get them out of Skyrim. Once they're gone, Ulfric probably has nothing to do with the Empire, and would rather focus on fighting the Dominion.

If rebellion can defeat a weakened Empire, and a weakened Empire can manage to stand toe-to-toe with the Dominion, I think Skyrim and the Empire could crush the Empire.

Of course, I believe the Empire will fall.

Strength isn't just about physical strength though. Like I said, a true nord respects tradition, but uses discretion. Jarls don't challenge high kings if the fight would be unfair / unessessary / plunge the country into chaos. If that were the case, and physical strength mattered more, every high king would've been killed when they got too old. Ulfric killed a boy who hadn't come into his prime yet. To me, he's uses tradition as an excuse. Ulfric may not admit to wanting to be high king, but he's putting his fierciest supporters on the thrones of the holds and ousting everyone else. His own hold is a mess of incompetence and racial prejudice thats surprising even for Skyrim. It's not just because of the war. It's been like this for years. If Ulfric rules his own kingdom like this, what does that say about his rule over Skyrim? Honestly I think Torygg was doing just fine politically, especially considering that his reign had just begun. I'll repeat what I said in my last post: He always talks about how it was him "making a statement" by killing Torygg. So in other words, he took the life of a boy barely out of his teens to say "See? He couldn't kill a seasoned war-veteran skilled in the voice! He is definitely an incompetant ruler unworthy of politics!" Sorry if I sound rude, as I'm not directing my rudeness toward you, it's just that things like that get to me. To me, Ulfric is a child. A true nord wouldn't use their own traditions as an excuse to kill a man who wasn't even a warrior. I hate when people paint themselves as "men of the people" when really they're short sighted and immature. Thats how Ulfric comes off to me. Just my opinion of course, and please dont take it personally like a lot of people do. Just a friendly video game debate haha