I LIKED the birth sign thing, and I liked the class system. I was majorly dissapointed there isnt one in this game. Are there Guilds in this one? I havent seen anything like a fighter's guild so far. The loss of the classes and the aparent lack of guild halls makes this feel much less like a elder scrolls game to me.

What do you all think?

There are still birth signs, of a sort, in the Standing Stones.

http:/www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Standing_Stone

And now that they got rid of Attributes, its the icing on the cake. I feel like they are loosing the RP in RPG and turning it into a mainstream G

Yeah not a fan of the new system myself. I really miss daggerfalls system. You could pick weaknesses and strengths and balance them with the meter. You could make some whacked out characters that way.

This is NOT an RPG. They dumbed it down for the casuals. They sold out at an alarming rate.

Standing Stones serve the same purpose as Birthsigns did in Morrowind and Oblivion, and classes always meant little in TES games anyway.

Oh, quit whining.

It's still an RPG, it's got character progression, learnable skills, different skill paths, quests, upgradable equipment etc.

It's an RPG.

To say otherwise is foolish.

Im actually agreeing here. Im really not liking this vs Oblivion. Its pretty, but thats really all and thats kinda sad. They COULD have continued the series, this feels like playing a D&D where they decided you dont need classes anymore

I much prefer the way things are now. Being locked into a specific class has always bothered me. People aren't that two-dimensional.

As said, Standing Stones are the birth signs of this incarnation.

All major guilds are still in.

Perks are your attributes outside of health/mana/stamina, which actually give you a much more dynamic character that doesn't have to depend on uber-rare MMO style equipment. You just spend your perks, all in all... I likes it alot.

/end post

It is still a RPG, just not a very good RPG, it lacks a severe amount of depth. But it is a good game, just not really a good RPG. it is something like a action lite RPG now. Kinda a departure from what has traditionally been TES.

See, guess Im kinda old school in my gaming. I liked that you couldnt buy respecs and reassign your birth sign and actually had to live with the consequences of your decision upon choosing what you did.

Does it feel to anyone else like theres less harvestable stuff in this one? I could just be crazy on this point, its just how it feels to me lol.
An yea, I know about the standing stones, I just dont like them

I too am sad to see the Attributes abandoned for the absolute essentials Health, Stamina, and Mana. That's one away from Diablo (health and Mana, red and blue).

I liked Classes too, that way I wouldn't accidentally level up because I like to sell the loot I collect.

I also miss Spell Creation and the Open spell. I always made a Blessing of Ondusi ring so my Mage could see what's in stuff without bringing himself down to the level of the common rabble.

I'm loving the changes.

Contrary to what Mhydrian seems to think, Skyrim feels like a more distilled version of the previous TES games, shedding the mechanics and baggage used by other games to come into its own.

Aside from the permanence of Perks (I wish I had a once-per-level re-spendable perk point), I can finally play whatever non-acrobatic character I want.

Honestly, I think Skyrim's leveling system nailed it. What we have now is what they have been trying to do in the past installments but failed at. You actively get better at what you do without getting tangled in asinine Major / Minor min / maxing. As for the Celestial Stones, I prefer them over Birthsigns as well. I feel their buffs are more significant, and the ability to seek them out and change which boon you carry enhances the gameplay and sense of discovery if you do not mindlessly look up their location on the net. First time I found the Tower Stone in the middle of nowhere, out of the way, I found the buff pretty impressive. Same with the Steed or the Lord or the Lover. Being saddled with a single one from the beginning of the game while knowing exactly what each does wouldn't have been as interesting.

There's guild halls.

I feel you, but you can still play as any class you want too. I make complicated characters and I have never felt hindered in anyway. And you can still pick what amounts to a sign at any set of standing stones.

The biggest difference is just that you don't pick and commit to those things when starting your character, you just play that way and pick the perks that best support how you want to play. People will tell you that it's "dumbed down" because it isn't spelled out in traditional RPG skill sets. It doesn't have to be.

You don't need old classical D&D rules to play a character how ever you want too and THAT is what TES is all about.

You can't buy respecs though?

I much prefer the new system. I really don't understand the appeal of having more forced, immutable choices at character creation.

the standing stones are a really stupid way to just pad out the birthsign mechanic. instead of picking a birthsign that adds a layer or personality to my character i just run up to a rock and click it for the exact same effect. what an improvement...

the perk system has ironically done the exact opposite thing it was supposed to. instead of allowing you greater freedom, the slightest mis-spent perk is a major loss to what you can do with your character because perks are much more valuable than attribute increases. with no classes, you have no real sense of identity and can level up unintentionally because every single skill up contributes now.

and also in contradiction to the intent of allowing you more freedom, your race choice is now the only thing defining your starting skill levels, so on harder difficulties newbs would certainly find themselves leaning towards certain skills out of necessity, leveling in ways they never intended just because they picked a certain race.

so in short, the only thing that has changed is that i now have less choice and am punished for not knowing the value of certain perks ahead of time. not really an improvement to me.

Look, if you want attributes and classes here they are :

Speech, pickpocket, sneak --- Thief

You'll be stealing massive amounts of loot, so you'll need what? Stamina

Heavy Armor/Light Armor, Weapons, Blocking and Smithing --- Warrior

You're a beasty, beefy tank... you'll need lots of health.

Pick any magic school, alchemy, echanting --- Mage

You're a mage, so mana... duh.

The framework allows for the traditional classes, but also allows for a MUCH MUCH MUCH more dynamic character by giving you more flexibility. This is progress, plain and simple. I would like to see spell-making put back, but its not a game breaker. Please explain how the current system prohibits traditional attribute/class style play?

It doesn't, its there, you just have MORE options.

Standing Stones serve the same function as birth signs. Classes are what you make them to be. All the major guilds are still in, maybe under a different name and history, but serve the same function.

I haven't found these yet. No, don't tell me where they are. I like discovering all of Skyrim by myself.

Its not... sorry but no. Just no.

Exactly.

Yeah, you can change half way through with standing stones. Nice choice/conciquences there.

Classes are what you make them to be? What kind of [censored] throw away line is that? It doesnt explain your point at all. There is No classes.

All the major guilds from what..? No fighters guild. Companians is NOT fighters guild, its the Warewolf fanclub. No mages guild... Collage of winterhold is just a random sidequest isnt it? And compare it to morrowind.. shiit.