Which came first - the chicken or the egg? Possible answer : Othor Games

» Wed May 02, 2012 7:43 pm

Technically the modern chicken was domesticated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken years ago - not millions of years ago. That said, its ancestor looks almost identical to a modern chicken.

As I said before, the first chicken hatched from an egg. Thus the egg came first. A non chicken may have laid that egg, but I contend that it was still a 'chicken' egg because a chicken hatched from it. Whether a wild-jungle-fowl or a sophisticated laboratory creates said egg - if a chicken hatches from it, it's a chicken egg. It's defined by what's in it - not what laid it.

That's a good point, I hadn't thought of it that way. :laugh:

» Wed May 02, 2012 2:21 pm

Yes I do, but you seem not to:

Darwin's pangenesis theory was complex as he tried to explain the process of sixual reproduction, passing of traits and complex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developmental_biology phenomena, such as cellular http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regeneration_%28biology%29.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangenesis#cite_note-Geison69-1}^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangenesis#cite_note-Jablonka05-2} His pangenesis theory was criticised for its http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarkism premise that parents could http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_of_acquired_characters in their lifetime. Lamarckism fell from favour after http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Weismann research in the 1880s indicated that changes from use (such as lifting weights to increase muscle mass) and disuse (such as being lazy and becoming scrawny) were not heritable.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangenesis#cite_note-ImaginaryLamarck-3}^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangenesis#cite_note-4} Some Lamarckian principles, however, have not been entirely discounted and some of Darwin's pangenesis principles (in this regard) do relate to heritable aspects of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotypic_plasticity, while the status of gemmules has been firmly rejected. Darwin himself had noted that "the existence of free gemmules is a gratuitous assumption"; by some accounts in modern interpretation, gemmules may be considered a prescient mix of DNA, RNA, proteins, prions, and other mobile elements that are heritable in a non-Mendelian manner at the molecular level.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangenesis#cite_note-Geison69-1}^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangenesis#cite_note-West.3DEberhard08-5}^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangenesis#cite_note-Liu09-6}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangenesis

Since we are taking direct quotes:

A scheme or system of ideas or statements held as an explanation or account of a group of facts or phenomena; a hypothesis that has been confirmed or established by observation or experiment, and is propounded or accepted as accounting for the known facts; a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed.

This can be found http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/200431?rskey=C6vDyv&result=1&isAdvanced=false#eid, number 4.

Stephen Fry also explains the scientific definition of the word 'theory' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGx-Typ_pGg.

You also didn't actually answer my question.

» Wed May 02, 2012 7:51 pm

The Netchiman's wife. Duh.

» Wed May 02, 2012 4:02 pm

I've noticed that no one even questioned the article - personally, I don't believe it. I believe that a chicken could have had an egg and not been able to pass it, but I have trouble believing that a live chick could result

Stranger things have happened. :shrug:

Eggs are pretty durable when compressed from all sides. I could definitely see a chicken failing to lay an egg and having said egg mature into a living chicken inside the mother. Why not?

» Wed May 02, 2012 2:51 pm

Stranger things have happened. :shrug:

Eggs are pretty durable when compressed from all sides. I could definitely see a chicken failing to lay an egg and having said egg mature into a living chicken inside the mother. Why not?

But what then? Chick is still inside the hen - not much air in there, I'd guess

» Wed May 02, 2012 12:07 pm

But what then? Chick is still inside the hen - not much air in there, I'd guess

As opposed to inside the egg?

» Wed May 02, 2012 3:31 pm

But what then? Chick is still inside the hen - not much air in there, I'd guess

Ever seen the movie Alien?

» Wed May 02, 2012 11:39 pm

An animal which evolved an ova instead of budding. Plus the means to eject the ova, and the ability to fertilize the ova, or perhaps each others ova. As the creatures became more experienced at having young, they learned what environmental and social situations were conducive to producing healthy young.

Also, poor bird, that must have been a horrible death.

» Thu May 03, 2012 1:49 am

Some type of species that wasn't actually chicken kept evolving and generation by generation until one laid an egg and then the actual species of chicken were born.

Egg came first.

» Wed May 02, 2012 8:05 pm

*Resists Racial Jokings*

You mean stereotype.

Not all of us like fried chicken. I don't.

» Wed May 02, 2012 1:39 pm

Evolution is the answer. First there was a bird that wasn't a chicken, but then eventually turned into a chicken. And since you have to be an egg to turn into a chicken, the egg came first. (an egg laid by a not-chicken)

An egg laid by a non-Chicken isn't a chicken egg then, it's a non-Chicken egg that hatched a mutant breed, which happened to be a chicken and then from this first chicken chicken eggs can then be laid.
How can you possibly lay a chicken egg without a chicken to lay it?

» Thu May 03, 2012 1:14 am

An egg laid by a non-Chicken isn't a chicken egg then, it's a non-Chicken egg that hatched a mutant breed, which happened to be a chicken and then from this first chicken chicken eggs can then be laid.
How can you possibly lay a chicken egg without a chicken to lay it?

The evolution doesn't happen on an already hatched chicken: it happens in the egg, before it's born. I didn't say that the egg was a chicken egg, but that the animal that cam out of the egg was a chicken. :wink_smile:

» Thu May 03, 2012 1:09 am

An egg laid by a non-Chicken isn't a chicken egg then, it's a non-Chicken egg that hatched a mutant breed, which happened to be a chicken and then from this first chicken chicken eggs can then be laid.
How can you possibly lay a chicken egg without a chicken to lay it?

Every parent is the same species as it's offspring (not counting hybridism).

» Wed May 02, 2012 12:35 pm

Every parent is the same species as it's offspring (not counting hybridism).

With this logic, evolution wouldn't exist. The change happens slowly, but at some point a limit will be reached where the species is now a chicken, when before it wasn't. Thus, egg came first.

» Thu May 03, 2012 12:51 am

The problem with this question is that it's never well-defined enough. For non-ambiguous version of this question, there is a correct answer, but there are too many possible interpretations.