I'm gonna' side with one of each on different characters so I can see how the story differs.

While the Empire claims to have banned the worship of Talos they don't seem to be enforcing it because there are shrines in several places. My first (and only so far) character is a Nord and whenever I've come across Imperial troops they don't mention Talos, but the one time I came across a group of Thalmor escorting a Nord prisoner they got smart with me and tried to tell me I couldn't worship Talos, I told them that they can't tell me who to worship (yeah, literally a dialogue option XD ), and the fight ensued - since I'm here posting and the Thalmor aren't you can guess how that went. XD

As for the Stormcloaks and Ulfric, I've not advanced the main story very far so the only exposure I've had with Ulfric was his dialogue loop in the Palace of Kings and he seems legitimately concerned for the Nords and more even-handed than the NPC to whom he's talking. He even seems to be lamenting the fact that he killed Torygg as a necessity to make a point. I may find out later that Ulfric is completely worthless, but I suspect Bethesda kept the conflict murky through the whole story.

Keep this in mind: at the end of the day if the Altmer attack Cyrodil the Empire will not offer too many troops (if any) to defend Skyrim whereas the Stormcloaks are not likely to head to Cyrodiil to help out.

Boils down to what type of person you are really.

Die proud, or stupidly depending on p.o.v. , but knowing you did so for a righteous reason.

Or

Live another day, and protect a people who will be forever worried about what might happen, and what they could have done to change it or will have to do in the future.

Some would rather live, some would rather die.

Self-preservation makes people do some really atrocious things.

I'm not even saying that the Empire was right, but then I can't necessarily say that they were wrong to accept a bad deal as being better than the alternative...and to bide their time to defeat the Thalmor in the future. Stranger things have certainly happened.

There's also the fact that Ulfric's movement resembles a lot of real life ones. I.e. ones where people start talking about the "good old days" when we were Romans, Vikings, and/or slave-owning plantation owners. This is actually the root of the Forsaken in the game and the hypocrisy of Ulfric in that he wants to go back to Pre-Tiber Septim days while he slaughtered the Forsaken left and right over their desire to do the same.

In the end, though, the Dragonborn chooses the "right" side by making them win and minimizing the bloodshed.

In the end Bethesda chooses the right side too continue the plot as they see fit.

But the redguards are fighting the thalmor independently..

No they FOUGHT The Thalmor, they stopped 21 years ago.

URGH I still can't decide Mostly I'm a "live to fight another day as long as you are not killing innocents to do it" type person. But the Thalmor really get to me... I think the redguards are the most morally right but they are not an option.

The whole plot does seam to be going parallel to world war II though it is spiting up the Nazi roles. Ulfric resembles Hitler. but the Thalmor resemble nazi Germany. the Empire resembles the allies with their "appeasemant" plan to a certain degree

I would speak to the people who say that Nords never had a problem with the Empire until Ulfric and on the other hand those who say the Empire was facing annhialation when it signed the White-Gold Concordant :

1) If you remember speaking to Nords in Oblivion, especially around Bruma, many of them spoke badly of the Imperials and the way they treated Nords back in Skyrim. So Ulfric wasn't really coming up with anything new here.

2) The Empire was only able to bring the Thalmor to the negotiating table by taking back the Imperial City. The fact that they accepted ridiculous terms that looked more like the Thalmor's original demands before the war seems more like an error in judgement on the Empire's part, imo. When they abandoned Hammerfell to fight on their own, and Hammerfell still won against the Thalmor, that was all the proof we need to see that the Thalmor were also badly weakened by the war. They were in no real place to make extreme demands on the Empire as if it were a dire "do or die" situation. The Nords are pretty much right to be ashamed by this.

So, who was right? Overall, I have to side with the Empire simply because Ulfric is indeed a xenophobe and more self-interested than pro-Skyrim like he claims to be. He just makes good use of propaganda catch phrases. The fact that he treats non-Nords the way he does and then eagerly accepts the help of a non-Nord Dragonborn just further tells his character. Also, the way he basically murdered a young High King who would probably have listened to his advice also puts Ulfric in the wrong.

It's possible that for expansions each one could be tailored to the choice we made. It would take some coding, but basically the only differences would be clothing/armor textures, voice accents, and a few NPC switches.

As for Elder Scrolls VI, they could probably come up with something clever enough to make references to the ending of V nebulous enough to make the transition believable.

You have to remember what the situation was like after The Battle of The Red Ring

• Cyrdoill was mostly destroyed
  
• The Empires BEST legions were only at 50%
  
• Titus had literally ZERO information on Thalmor troop numbers or what was going on in The Dominion's lands because all the blades were dead

You also shouldn't forget it took Hammerfell 5 more years of constant gorilla warfare to even stalemate The Thalmor.

The Thalmor can only be defeated by taking Alinor and at the time The Empire could not even hope to do it at the time

He could have either continued to fight what would have turned out to be a nearly endless stalemated war for YEARS UPON YEARS with no real assume of vitory, or he could let himself take it up the Ass for awhile and rebuild The Empire into a better state that was at least passable for a war.

if u looked at the Empire's action towards the countries that joined up with it and it was supposed to protect and support.........quite a few got shafted or abandoned so the Empire could survive. this "empire" from what im seeing and reading seems to be on its last legs and from the actions they done so far it seems that they are destined to fail with or without Skyrim's help. theres quit a few factors such as loss of management, thalmor everywhere, etc to take ito account as well as far as stability if goign with the Empire.

but all said and done, its whatever u choose, u paid for the game, u play it like u want to, theres no wrong way just do what u wanna do thats whats the games there for.

but ya STORMCLOAKS FTW! bc no matter u side with in the end, ya gonna always get the Moot and become Skyrim's high king, just depends if ur ur own country or paying lip service to whoever the nobles find to fill the position of the old....

The only province that got shafted or abandoned was Hammerfell.

Even then Hammerfell being let go is probably the best thing that could happen for it and the Empire.

It allowed Hammerfell to kick The Thalmor's ass without The Empire being held responsible.

Basically they just tried to get the heat off of themselves.

Not really.

The Thalmor had already stopped attacking The Empire but they were still sitting in lower Hammerfell and The Empire couldn't do anything about it.

Titus claims to have let them go because their continuous attacking of the Thalmor disrupted the treaty, however The Redguards are widely known to be the single greatest fighting force in Tamriel. I think Titus let them go SO they could kick out The Thalmor. The Empire couldn't do it with The Legions, and keeping Hammerfell threatened the treaty.

Letting them go was beneficial for both, it allowed the Redguards to take back their lands, thus sticking it even more to The Thalmor, and it kept The Empire safe.

Titus may have lost Hammerfell as a province but when the time comes and the Empire starts fighting The Thalmor again I do believe Hammerfell will join them to fight the greater enemy.

That's no excuse to disavow an entire province. Hell, he shouldn't have signed that treaty in the first place. He had victory. But he choose defeat.

Wrong, he had NO victory, he only had Cyrdoill.

The Thalmor only want to rule everything and destroy anything they cant. They cannot ever be defeated until Alinor is captured, and the Empire could not do that.

The best of The Legions were at 50% and Cyrdoill was burning, he couldn't continue a war into Valenwood and onto Alinor in his state, He had no information on The Dominion's lands and no information on the remaining Thalmor forces.

He would have to go in blind and it would have only led to a stalemated war that prevented him from rebuilding Cyrdoill because ALL of his men would be needed for it.

I interpreted it as two factions that really should be allies -- they have more common interests than conflicting ones -- squabbling amongst themselves while the true enemy of both chuckles from the sidelines.

The Thalmor are the real bad guys. The Empire and the Stormcloaks don't see eye-to-eye at the moment, but the sooner they recognize the common threat and pool their resources, the better.

Actually thats not true. They invited the dark elves to help and the dark elves refused. Cant say they werent asked.

Ah this again , it's your choice in you pov , a word of warning though. Both sides have possible outcomes you miht find distasteful. And don't forget these to sides perspectives either , one is trying to maintain an empire that it actively undermined and abandoned a great deal of (IMO) The other sees itself as a sovereign nation and is trying secede. Ulffric being a xenophobe racist , rofl he tried , but he's rather a poor racist he gave a section of his main city to Dunmer and quarters outside the walls to Argonians. Being distrustful of anything and using a name to describe can make you a racist in anybody's eyes. There isn't enough depth in the story to pan out all these claims of racism and brutality , if you consider there are no talks going on between the two until you yourself initiate ONE meeting. Not very realistic in times like these.

General Tullius is supposedly the great MAN , then why wouldn't he seek secret meetings to try to bargain for a truce and prepare for the real war to come. Everybody likes to inflate the empires teddy-bear-like niceness , doesn't hold up , but then again there's huge gaps in the story and content. The best course of action here would be to try and broker an agreement to emulate public conflict between the two while secretly peparing to be adequatly capable of defense , a plan most hardline imperial supporters should see as genius only the empire could come up with, The empire is in no postion to demand obedience after their own actions at this time , they need to redeem themselves period. And I suspect most rank and file are biting at the chance to do so.

Ulffric may seem xenophobic and racist , but it's kind of hard to find anybody in the game with nothing to say in the way of hate. But on a deeper level he has opened a can of worms and lost the lid. He now has followers that expect a certain kind of behavior from him or else. He has made the boundaries and now has to live within them. Oh and all this time while doing what he thinks is right (whether you like it or not) an entire section of his city is populated with dunmer telling you it's not their fight. Walking in this supposed xenophic racist bastard's shoes as some of you describe him , I would have killed every one of them long ago , they are boat anchors to this hard survival land and city.Plus from a military standpoint , what would happen in reality if the empire succeeds in attacking windhelm? Do the dunmer sit idly by whining about how crappy they have it? Or do they join up and help kill you? You wouldn't allow that possibilty to even exist if your real personal life was in question. Oh , and noone is preventing them from improing their own living areas are they? The Nords won't rebuild heir own stuff but they expect welfare assistance from them , that's a little demanding given the situation.

Play it how you like it , both sides kinda svck and have strengths. I found the imperial side to be a little sterile , and some of the Jarl replacements to be questionable at best. The stormcloaks act like real fighting men and are very blunt , even chewing you out a little if you act [censored] , I liked that. But the failing is what someone else pointed out , and that's it feels like almost the same exact questline so it's meh all around. But to the people bringing up the racist viewpoint , it's valid. But I ask you to consider other things you can observe for yourself that may help explain their disdain for certain people. The Dunmer in Windhelm ae not a good example to pinpoint their racism , they have lived there for some time now and haven't lifted a finger in anything at all , just whine alot.

The most correct answer to the question is that there is no right, because it's a subjective judgement. And even I, who mainly support the Empire, think that both sides are right in some ways respectively.

It's totally understandable that the Nords are angry about the ban on Talos worship. That's also why they should hold their horses for now. Everyone knows that the WGC was signed at a heavy price, and most seem to fixate upon that. However, I think there's more to it. It may seem like too big a price to pay if you look at it alone, but I think it was chosen because the other option was a lot more costly and held fewer future prospects. And the re-capture of the Imperial City doesn't guarantee that the Empire was fit to fight on afterwards, just that they had the chance to win something so that they wouldn't look as desperate when signing a peace treaty.

So to clarify, I think the Empires choices were the following: a) Sign the treaty, focus on rebuilding and try to endure to eventually get back at the Thalmor or b ) Continue fighting with a broken army, and if they lose the following battles and maybe lose all their forces in the end, they'll have even less to say about a peace treaty, ergo even worse terms. IF the Thalmor feel like signing a peace treaty when the Empire lies before them with very little resistance in their way, that is. Having such an advantage could just lead to them burning their way through all the provinces, looting and butchering as they go. The "Victory or Sovngarde!" mentality may sound pretty heroic, but remember that if the defenders all fall and get to party in Sovngarde, there will still be women, children and elders left with no one to shield them from the Thalmor.

And to be honest, the Thalmor had a lot to gain from the peace treaty, mainly because their plan worked. The Talos worship ban let the Thalmor kill Nords and Imperials alike, helped them ravage the land and weaken their opponents without having to fight a single proper battle. I'm not saying that the Stormcloaks are taking orders from the Thalmor, quite the opposite. Just that for every Stormcloak vs Empire battle or skirmish, there will be loads of casualties on the enemies side (from the Thalmor perspective) with 0 Thalmor casualties. I'm not sure how much better the odds could get for the Thalmor, thanks to the civil war.

And as for the Redguards and their resistance, that doesn't guarantuee a possible Imperial victory either. I'm not familiar with the details, but if it's guerilla warfare and insurgency then it's a good way to harass the Thalmor, but not with that big a chance of winning properly. Look at the US fighting insurgents, they are hard to find and get rid of, but most of what they can do are small scale assaults and sabotage, no real re-conquest against a proper military force. Or look at varying resistance groups in German occupied lands during WW2. They too upped the costs for the Germans, but no German force was properly pushed back until the real military got there.

And to use WW2 as a comparison yet again, lets say that the UK had made peace temporarily with Germany during WW2, only to have Scotland and Ireland start a war against England in the name of independence whilst they were trying to get ready to fight the Germans yet again. The comparison doesn't have religion in it, but except for that it's similar in some respects (not taking into account that Germans treated the English fairly well while the Thalmor may not be as forgiving etc, but it's a shallow comparison and doesn't aim for depth). Following some peoples logic this would make perfect sense.

I went for the Empire's side. Turned out it was the right decision for me as Ulfric was actually a Racist bully.
Anyone playing as a race other than a Nord and siding with him is a fool, unless they like living in slums and being treated as an inferior.
Check out the Grey quarters and the docks of Windhelm, ask around with the locals and find out what he is really like.

If you don't particularly like the Empire you can deal them a hefty blow during another quest anyway.

Whereas siding with the Empire is better? They removed religious freedom from their own people, allowing prosecution for worshipping a god!

So one is racists, with some reasons to explain their feelings.
The other is opressing religion with some reasons to explain their actions.

Neither really seem like a good option to me.

That happened before Ulfric became Jarl. Remember, Morrowind was destroyed by a volcano years before. The only reason we know he's a racist is that he refuses to use Nord troops to defend non-Nord citizens when raided by bandits.

They are citizens of Skyrim under the Empire. Ulfric just doesn't believe that.


Tullis is an arrogant jerk but it's not like he has room to manuever. Ulfric wants independence from the empire and his whole thing is to worship Talos freely. The Empire can't provide that without wholesale capitulation.

So, really, it's not like either wanted anything the other had at the bargaining table. Remember, you, the Dragonborn CAN bring them to the bargaining table and we saw the only thing they were willing to agree on.

But yes, there's no right side. In this case, the best thing for Skyrim is peace and you have a choice of two morally ambiguous sides.

Nurelion's home is a slum? Narinye, Ulundil, Arivanye, Revyn? I can't even imagine the splendor of the nord's homes. Everything must be made of gold.