Go read it again then. I hope you kept the book because it doesnt say that. Ulfric was a contact at one time, but at this time refuses all contact with the Thalmor. OTOH Tullius talks to them every day. The Thalmor tell Tullius he needs to control his people in skyrim or else, and Tullius does it. Thats what I call a tool.

They don't, because they know that if he does they're next on his hit-list. He even says so at the end of the Stormcloak quest line, although he couches it in terms such as 'leading the Empire to victory' and so on.

I typically support the Stormcloaks on those characters that actually bother with the whole mess, because the Empire has descended to a point where short-term survival is considered more important than maintenance of the alliances that will enable it to survive in the long term. As a result, supporting it is basically wasted effort as it's going to die sooner or later anyway and be replaced by a new entity.

What a lot of those who claim the WGC was necessary are forgetting is that the Thalmor army had just been obliterated, which implies that the Imperial army could have just kept on going and rolled them right up. I liken the situation to that of McClellan vs. Lee during the American Civil War: McClellan had Lee trapped, and beaten badly, but sat in his fortifications while Lee got away, rather than attacking and ending the war less than a year after it had started. McClellan, much like Titus Mede, had the bad habit of grossly overestimating the enemy's strength, and it cost him (and his nation) dearly.

Granted, we don't know whether or not the Thalmor actually had more forces or not, but based on accounts from both sides it seems pretty clear they didn't, or at least none that was close enough to intervene in time, save what was left of the army they'd sent to Hammerfell. Whether they did or not, though, the Empire should not have signed the WGC given the terms therein, as they had to know that doing so would alienate the remaining provinces, which they could ill afford. Sure enough, doing so provoked the Civil War with Skyrim, as they saw the signing as rank betrayal, which resulted in the current situation.

Neither is right, but you can determine who is left.

At first I thought the Stormcloaks were better morally until I found out about their mistreatment of other races besides Nords and somewhat Imperials. I have also hated racism with a burning passion and now I can never look at the Stormcloaks the same way again. Not saying there isn't good people in the Stormcloaks though like Ralof for example.

I sympathize with the Stormcloaks. Then agin, Im a rebel at heart and have been described by my political science proffessors as "Just short of an anarchist"... So that about sums up who in the right for me. Decentralization, especially from a tyrranical uncaring empire, is completely along my RL views.

That's the key isn't it? Your RL views on political enviroments color your preferred side in this game. I like how the 2 sides repressent so many opposites though

Can't wait for TES 6

Hmmm. No. Since my preferred side is "neither" - and has been since the very beginning. My RL prefs have nothing to do with this game or any other.

Dear lord! This!!!!!!!

Where did this concept of the Empire "winning" come from? They did not win the war. The won a single pivotal battle at the end of the war that kept them from having to accept unconditional surrender. After the battle of the red ring the empire had lost several legions and what was left was under half power. The imperial heartland was devastated and needed to be rebuilt. By comparison the dominion was untouched, still had its infrastructure intact, and still had all its defensive garrisons ready to go. If the empire had invaded they would would have just lost what small amount of forces they had left.

Now, back to topic the choice of which side to go with is pretty vague. I tend to support the Empire but I see where the Stormcloaks are coming from. The WGC is a huge betrayal of the Nord people, and I don't blame them for wanting to leave the Empire. My problem with the Stormcloaks isn't their cause, its their leader. Most Stormcloaks are good intentioned freedom fighters, but Ulfric is a serious piece of work.

The big reason I think the Empire is the best choice is that the WGC is just temporary. A second war with the Dominion is coming and if the Empire wins that then the terms of the WGC will be nullified, and Talos will be considered a Divine once again. The problem with the Stormcloaks is that are going to make it difficult for the Empire (and everyone else) to defeat the Thalmor. This does not make the Stormcloak cause any less just but it is something to think about.

Tullius coming to skyrim to quell the rebellion serves the thalmor purposes just as much.

That's a hard one that... I was actually thinking about joining the stormcloaks until I read somewhere that u have to take whiterun from balgruuf and on that alone, I'm gonna side with the imperials.

It's "Cyrodill" and "guerilla".... yeah yeah, I know that's spelling nazi stuff - but jeez, look it up on the wiki before you post!



Yah.... Baalgruuf is probably my favorite NPC in the game. I played the Stormcloak questline on an early toon - up to the point at which they wanted me to help trash Whiterun.

Nope. Didn't go there. NOT going there. Of course, I'm not going there with the Imperial questline either.... I just don't do either.

The only problem is if you do neither you miss out on one of the best houses in the game. Its no the end of the world but still svcks.

Um. I have all the houses I need. The one in Windhelm wouldn't be one I'd use anyway. I REALLY dislike Windhelm.

On the plus side, at least his brats no longer infest Dragonsreach.

no one side is right, no one side is wrong, it is entirely up to your mind which one is right and which is wrong.

/thread

I am guessing you are talking about the dark elves being forced to live in the slum. The thing is that this is a feudal society. No one can buy a house unless they contribute, not even dragonborn. The dark elves were invited to help out and refused. They are refugees that refuse to help. They are lucky they are even allowed to take the poor houses, why would anyone think they should be allowed to buy a house in the good neighborhood? Because they have money? Thats not how it works. Support the Jarl and the Jarl will support you.

Yeah, they might enforce the ban on Talos if they had more power/representation.


If you take the leaders and their personalities out of the equation the Stormcloaks (as a people) are in the right. They are fighting for their homeland and independence whereas the Empire isn't trying to add Skyrim to it's 'family' for any for the protection of Skyrim - they merely want to expand their economic base.

have you guys read the Thalmor dossier on ulfric?


But Skyrim is part of the Empire, more over Skyrim is the "HOME of the Empire. Talos after all was Tiber septem that started the whole deal, IIRC. So isn't the Empire "fighting for it's homeland against the rebels" ? they need Skyrim and the nords to help keep the Thalmor in check.

Not to mention that Imperials and Nords once were the same. And it's true, Skyrim and the Nords had always been a part of the Empire of old, but this is a new Empire. The old Empire made things better for most people, since they tried to get rid of slavery, brought free trade and freedom of religion etc (and as said in another post, we can't judge the new Empire's policies by the WGC since that was a desperate measure to avoid annihilation). How close the new Empire gets to that I cannot say. But even though I support the Empire in the civil war, I would have been fine with Skyrim trying to seced had it not been for what I've heard about the Thalmor trying to escape the mortal realm by destroying it.

Tiber was born in high rock, if anything THAT is the true home of The Empire.

I ran into a weird glitch when starting a new game.. At the intro, the Skyrim title showed up, somewhat sad opening music came in, and then... I wasn't on a carriage. I was standing in front of a carriage, surrounded by the Stormcloaks. It was almost like a scene *right* before the actual intro, before we got on the carriage. lol

Anyways.. it somehow provoked something in me. It was the first time I really sympathized with the Cloaks. Maybe it was that pretty brown haired Nord girl.. I finally got to see her up close. Maybe it was Ulfric's sad looking countence. We were all bound and heading for death, but these characters finally looked awesome in a way. I felted bonded to them.

/random

Stormcloaks.

No one. It's good people fighting good people on both sides, with a few jerks mixed in. They fight with different values in mind, but honor/dishonor are not exclusive to any one side. That's why it's so tragic.

Yeah, I really like Rikke and Hadvar, for example. Good balance to the whole "Nord=Stormcloak" thing.

Certainly. Seeing people like them and Balgruuf reminds you that this is a civil war, brother vs. brother, father vs. son, friend vs. friend.

Well, from what I've read (in game stuff and some on web sites) Solitude is the "seat of Imperial power in Skyrim" and Cyrdiil is the "Cosmoplitan capital" of the Empire. I know some countries have multiple capitals so I'm not sure how much of a home Skyrim is to the Empire overall.