Can someone please explain to me why this is apparently so bothersome to some of the people who post on these forums? Is it just an OCD "I want a neat list, dammit!" thing, or is there some other issue?


Personally, I've got no problem with it. I'm walking down the street, overhear two NPCs in the corner talking about something odd happening at the mine down the road, and a notation "Check the mine west of Bobville" is thrown in my journal. Cool! A reminder of some task I might be interested in doing. Nice of them to throw that in there. I may or may not ever get to it. No big deal....

I certainly also don't have any issues with NOT doing a task I discover is objectionable.... like the guy in Solitude who you hear has a job. You ask what the job is, he says "Sabotage the lighthouse so the cargo ships crash!" Um, no. Sorry dude. But in case I ever change my mind, that note is still in my journal. Excellent! Good way to keep track of various optional tasks you might or might not want to optionally do. Certainly nothing there FORCING me to do anything.


(Yes, I'll admit that they could have included a "delete entry" function. I imagine they didn't because 1. it didn't occur to them that anyone might have such an issue with it, and 2. they certainly would have anticipated a flood of "Oh crap! I deleted some quest entries for Major Quest Chains! I've broken my game! Help!" That's a heck of a good reason to NOT include a delete option.)

Dude, you are reading way too much into this. Any quest could be a set-up in actuality, most people would just deal with it if and when it occurs. If you do this same thing before any quest you take I'm surprised you are able to do very many at all.

I had to reload because I hated the ending so damn much. My guy wasn't a petting kitty type but damn if he wasn't still the most heroic guy in Skyrim. Even more than torturing a man, my Dragonborn is not anyone's [insert expletive].

So, I did the only way to thwart his plans. I tracked down the priest and killed him.

That way, I ended up gut-punching BOTH Daedric princes. Yeah, I don't get a mace but my character beat the system.

"Now, I'm used to having multiple choices in Elder Scrolls games. I'm used to there being a good option and a bad option. I'm playing a pretty decent guy, so I figured I'd screw Balag over and warn the priest instead. So I went and got him. I was surprised at the lack of a "Balag Mol is trying to trick you!"-esque dialogue option, but not alarmed, and returned to the abandoned house with the priest. Once there, the priest falls into Balag's trap and you are ordered to beat him repeatedly with a rusty mace while he is helpless. I was expecting to be given an opportunity to refuse, to fight back, but there isn't one.

This is a case of incomplete quest writing - most players investigate the house on completely innocent terms, so there should be an option to finish/end the quest in a non-evil way. For example, in the quest you do for the daedric lord of the hunt, Hircine (another quest that I started without knowing it was a daedric one), in addition to obeying Hircine's orders (kill the well-meaning werewolf) you also have the option to defy him (team up with the werewolf). There should have been an option like that in The House of Horrors for those of us who are more into fighting evil than serving it."

-Incomplete writing, huh? Sounds you dont like being forced to make a decision you want to. Life in Skyrim isn't so tidy. Keep in mind your messing with a game that follow Polytheism. Dont dally with evil Daedra in the first place. They purposefully put in this moral dilemma to test all gamers over the last game they released. There are many Daedric Quests where you will be forced again in much the same fashion. My answer (as in the past games) was to become a Vampire or a Werewolf for a period of time to finish the evil quests. This way you are infected (or 'possessed' if you allow yourself to misinterpret how the game operates).While I'm a Christian as well, I can suspend my expectations of the world, and it does take quite a bit of grace or letting go to enjoy certain aspects of this game. I mean, if you really want to torture yourself, this whole game is "wrong", if you want to remove yourself fully from this 'world'. Sad to say, but I play this more than I pray. Truth hurts. But I can and will ask for forgiveness.

I don't like wading through useless quests I'll never complete. It's staying there, staring into my soul pleading "complete me complete me!" I just want to take a rusty mace and beat it >_>

Yeah, there's a lot of missing quest writing I think. I think this game could have been two discs for the amount of writing and choice normally found in these games.

It isn't a religion. It's a cult, and they are typically rather violent in most situations. They also tend to summon creatures with murderous intent, which should be more than enough to justify any sort of investigation. And again, you never explicitly state you are going to kill anyone or thing. You agree to help investigate. There is nothing that would prevent you from leaving if nothing is found, or apologizing if you ended up barging in on some happily family get-together.

An active quest in you Journal doesn't hurt anyone. Just don't do it.

There's a bit of variance with worship of the Daedric princes.

On one hand, you've got the Dark Elves who worship the Diet Coke of Daedric Princes. Remember your follower at Azura's Shrine? She's practically a saint if not for her taking off her clothes whenever I offer her robes (I think she's attempting to seduce me).

On the other hand, you've got those weirdos eating people and trying to open portals to DESTROY THE WORLD.

Somewhere inbetween is everyone else.

So the Vigilants might be right that there's a bunch of potential Mythic Dawn hokerrs - because you can't walk 5 miles in Skyrim without tripping over a fortress full of evil necromancers. It's just, here, it's actually a manifestation of their boss.

Cult
noun
1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/physical+fitness cult.
3.the http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/object of such devotion.
4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.


Religious persecution under another name.

Typicially rather violent under most circumstances? Stereotype much? The same blanket-statement could be made about any real-world religion and guess what, it would sitll be religious persecution. Been to Morrowind?



Could be, could-not be. There's no evidence or proof to imply there is any guilt to be found within. Innocent until proven guilty, or guilty until proven innocent? If the inhabitants of the house were in some way dangerous or thretening to the people of Markarth, don't you think that the people of Markarth would have some iterest in having them removed?

Not sure if this was mentioned but you can tell what type of quest it is via the journal (look at the header for each quest). Once you see that it's a Deadric quest simply ignore it from there on out. There's nothing evil about any of the opening Deadric quests so it shouldn't be an issue for those with a personally higher sense of morality.

A person with a higher sense of morality shouldn't be embarking on quests of religious persecution either - especially not someone who identifies themselvef as a Christian.

Agreed but you forgot the "personally" which was the most important part of that statement.

God I hate it when people do this.

No, it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you're Christian. You're uncomfortable with it because you can't step into the role of someone else effectively in a game. It's fine if your complaint is that you are playing a "good guy" type and you're not given a good guy option at the end...but real life morality shouldn't ever enter into the equation at all in these types of conversations.

Stop trying to compare this to real world concerns. How many Daedra in-game are violent monsters that wish for nothing more than to kill you? Oh, just the ones you don't actually summon. Stereotype, my ass. This isn't some 9/11 situation where people assume everyone associated with a single religion (CULT, in this case) is responsible or evil or foul and despicable. In this situation, everyone you meet in-game that worships Daedra and summons them is evil.

What you're suggesting is like expecting the player to believe that wolves aren't trying to kill them simply because an overwhelming majority have tried to do so.

I don't know. I've met plenty of peaceful & friendly Dunmer as well as Daedra worshippers of other races. Ever mat an Orc? They're almost all Daedra worshippers. Ever been to Morrowind? or even to an orc stronghold?

Wolves are animals, summoned daedra are much-like animals. People who worship different gods than you are not animals.

I get it. You don't like them, so you label them as evil and compare them to animals. You're a "good guy".

It's a preference, though one that applies to multiple religions (myself included). I want to play the good guy. I don't enjoy beating guys with a mace while they squirm. Different strokes, man.

Hircine's Quest is not evil. Killing the Werewolf is good. He ripped apart a little girl. I don't care that "he couldn't control himself," if he did it once, he could do it again. And I doubt that was the first time either!

Daedric quests are not all evil. Meredia doesn't like undead, so she asks you to help her. She is NOT an Aedra. She is a Daedra.

Hircine is another example of how not all Daedric Princes, Daedra, Daedra Worshippers and those associated with them are not all evil. Hunting is not evil.

Let alone, hunting a killer.

Sorry , no. Boethiah just LOVES betrayal and displaying strength and domination. So you'd actually "maybe" make Boethiah notice you a bit more favorably , if you wanna keep molag bal angry , leave the situation as is , because that priest keeps coming back and doing Boethiah rites at HIS altar and it's toruring him because he's basically helpless even if he traps the guy , he'll then have to sit there and listen to his Boethiah nonsense prayers etc. Without you to physically end the priest , it just becomes this stupid loop of .... stupidity between the two.

Interpreting situations differently, that's the beauty of roleplaying. I think we shouldn't judge others on their roleplaying decisions in a video game.

But to interpret things differently, they must be open to interpretation which means there must be many variables, viewpoints. To reflect that interpretation, there must be some freedom of action too. The lack of alternative solutions is a glaring issue in this game. It is even more of a problem with indisposable quest items, essential NPCs and scripted events, they are all working against player freedom. TES is betraying its own strength, openness.

Railroading or Roleplaying?

How many Dunmer have you met in Skyrim who summon Daedra to help them with their house chores? How many Orcs have you met that do the same? They worship Daedric princes for different reasons than most of the cult members you come across. The Dunmer see the Daedric princes as their ancestors, and view their actions as tests the Dunmer must endure. The Orcs worship Malacath because he was once Trinimac, an Aedra the Orcs worshiped before they became the Orcs you see. His sphere is also perfectly represents the Orcs. They don't summon him or his minions to go around killing people. They do that themselves.

All the Daedra I've come across in the wild have tried to kill me. All the people who have summoned them have also tried to kill me. Companions and followers don't summon Daedra because they worship them. They summon Daedra for utility. They summon them for help on the battlefield, not to murder little old ladies. Vigilants of Stendarr sure do talk tough, but they do not attack you if you summon a Daedra in front of them, neither do they attack your followers if they do the same. The only Daedra they attack are the Daedra that pose a threat to them, or anyone around them. Given all that, and every other piece of evidence provided in-game, it's stupid to assume that they would invade a home and kill some helpless family that's gathered around the fireplace.

So again, stop with all the real world situations. They do not apply, and neither do situations from previous games. All the Daedra you encounter in Skyrim try to kill or are at the very least in some way hostile. Daedric princes? Not so much (Sanguine was a really nice guy), but it isn't them that the cultists summon.

I let the werewolf live, killed the hunters instead

Hircine was equally pleased.

The daedra which are summoned, are daedra that exist to fight. They're not suitable for chores. Except in Morrowind there were different daedra that people actually did summon to help them with chores. Such as scamps.

The Vigilant of Stendarr isn't trying to cross into Oblivion to kill the combat daedra, he is scouring Markarth ins earch of Daedra worshippers in order to persecute them.

Summoning daedra for combat is unrelated to daedra worship. You can summon daedra for combat and be good, or you could summon them for combat and be evil. Daedra summons are a tool and are no more evil than their users' intention as you yourself illutrated. Your logical is clearly circular.