Why did I just beat an old man to death with a rusty mace?

Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:22 am

it was a saturday. I was bored because there was nothing on TV so...........
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NeverStopThe
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:53 am

The Vigilant of Stendarr isn't trying to cross into Oblivion to kill the combat daedra, he is scouring Markarth ins earch of Daedra worshippers in order to persecute them.
Only if they're evil. Can you describe a single situation in-game where a Vigilant of Stendarr has killed someone or something that didn't pose a threat? Like I said, I have summoned Daedra in front of them on multiple occasions, and so have my followers. Not once have they ever attacked us. Actions speak louder than words, and you have absolutely no evidence to support your claim other than what the Vigilant said. There are, however, multiple instances of where Vigilants have let those who summon Daedra walk past as though they had done nothing wrong.

It is highly unlikely that he would have started killing everyone inside the house in question (assuming people were actually inside) unless they posed an immediate threat, and highly likely that they would have given past experiences with cultists in-game and NPC's in general that summon Daedra. So his motives are completely justified.
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Danel
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:12 am

how has this not been locked yet?
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Austin Suggs
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:28 am

Only if they're evil. Can you describe a single situation in-game where a Vigilant of Stendarr has killed someone or something that didn't pose a threat? Like I said, I have summoned Daedra in front of them on multiple occasions, and so have my followers. Not once have they ever attacked us. Actions speak louder than words, and you have absolutely no evidence to support your claim other than what the Vigilant said. There are, however, multiple instances of where Vigilants have let those who summon Daedra walk past as though they had done nothing wrong.

It is highly unlikely that he would have started killing everyone inside the house in question (assuming people were actually inside) unless they posed an immediate threat, and highly likely that they would have given past experiences with cultists in-game and NPC's in general that summon Daedra. So his motives are completely justified.

Exactly. He isn't killing people for summoned or summoning daedra. He is killing people for worshipping daedra. That's my entire point. If the people he suspected to be inside the house were an immediate threat to anyone, he wouldn't have to enter the house to find them. Not only is it circular logic, but now it's become self-consuming circular logic.
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Crystal Clear
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:40 pm

Exactly. He isn't killing people for summoned or summoning daedra. He is killing people for worshipping daedra. That's my entire point. If the people he suspected to be inside the house were an immediate threat to anyone, he wouldn't have to enter the house to find them. Not only is it circular logic, but now it's become self-consuming circular logic.
What evidence do you have to support such a claim? I've yet to witness any such event as a Vigilant killing someone for merely worshiping Daedra. I've had Orc followers who worship Malacath at my side when conversing with Vigilants, and nothing has happened. My character is a Dunmer as well, and they're widely known as worshipers of the Daedric princes (especially now with the Tribunal gone). There isn't a single piece of evidence in-game to prove that they kill innocent NPC's or creatures.

He had wanted to enter the house to investigate. If, upon entering the house, he found, say, hostile Daedra worshipers, he probably would kill them, but there's nothing to suggest he would kill anyone who had simply been in there -- including non-hostile Orcs with a shrine to Malacath or Dunmer.
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Ria dell
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:15 pm

My problem today is with Markarth/daedric quest "The House of Horrors" - in short, it made me feel uncomfortable. I think Bethesda went too far. In this post I will be giving spoilers on this quest so stop reading here if that bothers you. I will also add that I'm a Christian, which possibly means that this is more of an issue to me than for many others.

If it makes you feel better: You didn't just kill an old man, you killed a guileful murderer, he has to be or Boethiah would never accept him as a priest.

Molag Bal is a tyrant, spreads strife and tries to dominate mortals, but at least he's direct. Would it really have been different if Stendarr God of "mercy" and righteous pursuit of evil would have told you to kill him for being a daedra worshipper?
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Epul Kedah
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:05 am

What evidence do you have to support such a claim? I've yet to witness any such event as a Vigilant killing someone for merely worshiping Daedra. I've had Orc followers who worship Malacath at my side when conversing with Vigilants, and nothing has happened. My character is a Dunmer as well, and they're widely known as worshipers of the Daedric princes (especially now with the Tribunal gone). There isn't a single piece of evidence in-game to prove that they kill innocent NPC's or creatures.

He had wanted to enter the house to investigate. If, upon entering the house, he found, say, hostile Daedra worshipers, he probably would kill them, but there's nothing to suggest he would kill anyone who had simply been in there -- including non-hostile Orcs with a shrine to Malacath or Dunmer.

He tried to kill you, didn't he?

He was investigating the house searching for Daedra worshippers to persecute. There's no arguing that point. He wasn't looking to help anyone, only to hurt. His intentions were far from good or well meaning. Whether or not he intended to kill them is irrelevant. He intended to investigate and persecute them solely on their suspected religious belief. Which defines religious persecution.
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Deon Knight
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:49 am

He mentions no such thing. He only states he believes the house might have been used for Daedra worship (evil rites and so forth) and wishes to investigate, and if you happen to help him out, he warns you that Daedra are powerful creatures and tricksters. If anything, he doesn't believe there are any worshipers inside at all, just remnants of their rituals or the Daedra they conjured. No persecution there, sorry.

The house is also labeled as being abandoned before even meet the Vigilant. There is absolutely no mention of people still being inside, and he only asks if you've seen people enter or leave. There is no mention of him ever wanting to harm them. There's not even any mention of him wanting to banish the Daedra, should any be inside. All he wishes to do is investigate.
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mike
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:20 am

Daedra worship is religious activity. "Investigating" religious activity due to it being a religion you dislike, is religious persecution. If he simply believed there were monsters inside he could have hired one of any of the numerous mercenaries hanging out in Markarth to help him clear out the monsters. In fact, if there was any reason to believe it was full of monsters, the citizens and guards would be interested in clearing it out as well.
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Bambi
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:02 pm

It's a cult, not a religion, and his reasoning for wanting to investigate likely does not stem from his dislike of the worshipers, but his sense of justice and the fact that Daedra might still reside within the house, or possibly other dangerous instruments used during the rituals in which they're summoned.

Like I said, there's only mention of Daedra worship, not the worshipers themselves. It doesn't even seem as though he wishes to confront anyone, just investigate, much like a cop might want to investigate a house Jim Jones once owned.

If he simply believed there were monsters inside he could have hired one of any of the numerous mercenaries hanging out in Markarth to help him clear out the monsters. In fact, if there was any reason to believe it was full of monsters, the citizens and guards would be interested in clearing it out as well.
Why? The Vigilants themselves traverse the wilderness in order to find and put down Daedra. They're mercenaries of justice, if anything. He wouldn't need to hire anyone, and does not ask the player for help at all. The player instead asks him if he needs help, which he appreciates, stating it would be nice for someone to be able to watch his back.

That's not something someone says when he's about to kill innocent people. That's something someone says when they're entering into a dangerous place or situation. He clearly believes Daedra themselves are in the house, not any worshipers.
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Jonathan Braz
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:24 am

You are hilarious. Enough said.
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Emmie Cate
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:19 pm

He doesn't even draw his weapon upon entering the house. There is no intention of killing anyone or anything, at least until he's threatened. Once inside, he states that "something" is in the house, and that we must check it out. You don't refer to people as "something". When he finally realizes what's inside, he states that it's no ordinary Daedra, suggesting that's what he was searching for all along.
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Kelsey Anna Farley
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:42 pm

Very good quest. I wish we had quests to kill the bad guys like the Vigilants of Stendarr. We already get to kill the evil Silver Hand.
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Devin Sluis
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:58 pm

Very good quest. I wish we had quests to kill the bad guys like the Vigilants of Stendarr. We already get to kill the evil Silver Hand.

That would be interesting. My Imperial Divine-worshipper would be interested.
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Mario Alcantar
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:14 am

Why is this still going? The OP was concerned about acidentilly accepting such quests and several ways to avoid that have been given. That should be the end of it.

This religious back-and-forth doesn't belong on these boards.
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Astargoth Rockin' Design
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:59 pm

I kind of liked that it made me uncomfortable and I don't think Bethesda went too far.

Besides loving the spirit of this quest I also went through it (and I rarely use fast travel so I actually hoofed it to rescue the priest) only to discover that I was going to be asked to do something against my character. I then started it again and picked a different answer thinking it would change the outcome only to then realize that I was still going to be asked to murder this priest.

So essentially the quest is evil.

It's for evil characters. Because of this you have the decision to walk away and never return. This is "ok". It's ok to make hard decisions and to leave things behind. I suspect that this is really more about being "completist" and having the urge to close the loop on every quest.

What got me through the quest is that I then looked up Boethiah only to discover she was worse than Molg Bal.

So I was essentially killing someone who probably spends his time capturing victims and murdering them in the name of Boethiah. This made it easier to complete the quest and I took the mace and hung it up in my weapon rack as a reminder to the demands of the Daedric world.

I would love to see more quests where real decisions are made and where players had to make decision on whether to do the quest or "walk away".
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herrade
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:54 am

Very good quest. I wish we had quests to kill the bad guys like the Vigilants of Stendarr. We already get to kill the evil Silver Hand.

You can just go to the temple of the vigilant or whatever it's called and slaughter all those nasty haters. I prefer to transform into a werewolf before killing them, but that's just me.
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Code Affinity
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:59 am

The solutions that were given do not work. They assume the player knows what's going to happen before it actually happens. They also don't really help the OP in any way, as he has already dealt with the quest in question.

Someone stands outside a house, talking of possible Daedra worship that might have occurred inside. The Vigilant within me has no choice but to help.
One inside, said person is scared and manipulated by Molag Bal into attack you. The survivor within me has no choice but to slay him.
Upon killing the poor man, you cannot leave the house until you claim your "reward". The mortal within me has no choice but to obey.
After refusing to help the Daedric prince that was responsible for it all, you're told of a man being held against his will. Suffering. The humanity within me leaves no choice but to help him.
The priest, who is not exactly.. appreciative of my actions, runs back to Markarth to desecrate the altar once more, likely to his death. The hero within me has no choice but to try and save him once more.
Entering the house and venturing down toward the altar, I become trapped once more, and am only allowed freedom after killing the poor man I had tried to save, not once but twice.

If you're playing a "good" character and you're unaware of what's going to happen next, you're easily lured into finally finishing the quest. Bethesda isn't forcing you to complete it physically, but they're still forcing you.

This is a role-playing game. People do role-play differently, with some opting to play as "good" characters. You can't just ignore certain parts of this quest without compromising your character's playstyle, and that's something Bethesda has stated, time and again, they'll never do.

Simply playing around it is not a solution. It's a flaw in the game that was put there by Bethesda, and they should fix it or at least come straight with what they wish to accomplish with their games.
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Nicole Elocin
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:11 pm

The solutions that were given do not work. They assume the player knows what's going to happen before it actually happens. They also don't really help the OP in any way, as he has already dealt with the quest in question.

Someone stands outside a house, talking of possible Daedra worship that might have occurred inside. The Vigilant within me has no choice but to help.
One inside, said person is scared and manipulated by Molag Bal into attack you. The survivor within me has no choice but to slay him.
Upon killing the poor man, you cannot leave the house until you claim your "reward". The mortal within me has no choice but to obey.
After refusing to help the Daedric prince that was responsible for it all, you're told of a man being held against his will. Suffering. The humanity within me leaves no choice but to help him.
The priest, who is not exactly.. appreciative of my actions, runs back to Markarth to desecrate the altar once more, likely to his death. The hero within me has no choice but to try and save him once more.
Entering the house and venturing down toward the altar, I become trapped once more, and am only allowed freedom after killing the poor man I had tried to save, not once but twice.

If you're playing a "good" character and you're unaware of what's going to happen next, you're easily lured into finally finishing the quest. Bethesda isn't forcing you to complete it physically, but they're still forcing you.

This is a role-playing game. People do role-play differently, with some opting to play as "good" characters. You can't just ignore certain parts of this quest without compromising your character's playstyle, and that's something Bethesda has stated, time and again, they'll never do.

Simply playing around it is not a solution. It's a flaw in the game that was put there by Bethesda, and they should fix it or at least come straight with what they wish to accomplish with their games.
this.
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Rachie Stout
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:40 pm

You CAN refuse. When you're first in the cage, there is a dialogue option where you demand to be free and he accepts. I reloaded the game because I want to get the mace, but you can indeed get out of there right after you get to the alter for the first time if you choose to demand your freedom instead of listening further to his scheme. I'm a christian too, and I'm saved up to right before the house of horrors. I'm a bit nervous going into this quest.
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Mr. Ray
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:53 am

If you refuse, Molag Bal mentions that there is a priest being held against his will. That he's suffering. If you're playing a "good" character, are you really going to ignore that? Again, it breaks the playstyle we choose. You wouldn't normally ignore the fact that someone is a prisoner against their will, but because of how the quest turns out, you're forced to do so just to avoid having to do something worse. And that's only if you know what's going to happen. If you don't, then you have no idea you just screwed yourself over big time by helping a person in need.
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Tyrone Haywood
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:22 am

the funny thing is your god commanded about the same thing a couple of times in the bible aswell and all obey.
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Bitter End
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:27 am

I don't recall being able to leave. Once you enter the house I believe it becomes a kill or be killed situation.

I did this on my first toon, realized what was going to happen once inside a ways and reloaded to the save entering mark arts. Had to replay only a few minutes since that's about the second thing that happens in the city.

No, pay attention to the dialogue options in the cage. You can demand your freedom before the scheme gets completely revealed to you.
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Emily Martell
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:05 am

No, pay attention to the dialogue options in the cage. You can demand your freedom before the scheme gets completely revealed to you.
You're lured right back in by Molag Bal when you choose that option.
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CxvIII
 
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Post » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:57 pm

This quest comes up time and time again when people are complaining about a lack of choice, and I have to say, that complaint is just downright stupid. You have a choice. The choice is to not do the freaking quest. OP, you claim you received no warning that it was a Daedric artifact quest, how about the fact that the voice openly announces himself to be Molag Bal, the Daedric Prince of Domination? The King of [censored]? Honestly, you should be happy all you did was beat an old man to death with a mace. That's tame for Molag Bal.

Given the numerous signs that Molag Bal wasn't a nice guy, you'd think you'd figure out what was going on.
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Matthew Aaron Evans
 
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