The ever so hated and criticized handholding feature of the compass and quest arrows.

I share the opinion of many others that it is not needed, in my mind it makes parts of the game that are really well designed, completely pointless.

Here's the thing, the terrain and surroundings in Skyrim are so well crafted and unique that if I was shown a screenshot from outdoors without any indicators, I could easily point out where this was. The flora and the landscape in each region is so characteristic that as long as I have played the game for some time, I will be quite able to orientate myself in the surroundings. This is a fantastic merit and praise to those who designed the terrain and landscape, and then enter the compass, quest markers and completely ruin all of their hard work by making it pontless for any other purpose than eye candy.

There was the chance and opportunity to make the players feel like real explorers, like they are getting to know a real world, learn to recognize paths, landmarks and features in the terrain. If I feel lost, I can just climb up to a high point and easily locate a landmark that I will recognize.

Even more disappointing is that I find treasure maps in the game that show that by no means do I need the quest markers, the maps are very simple and intentionally a bit flawed, but I have no problems at all locating the point to which the maps direct me, even without any other help than a few landmarks and simple map indicators. So many quests could be designed around directions like these without causing frustration or problems, as long as I know my region, I will easily find the place.

To me, it's not the handholding in itself that makes me negative towards the compass, I don't mind it so much within dungeons, but it is the indirect insult towards the landscape and terrain designers that says that despite all of their work and attention to detail, people still need a GPS to understand where they are in this unique, handcrafted, world they have created.

Oh, this again.

there's a mod i awared in Nexus, allow you to customize the compass. though i didn't use it, and i have no major problem with the vanilla compass.

Ummm...uncheck the quest. No arrow.

This.

Also, after Morrowind came out, people would complain about not being able to find locations based on directions that were often quite vague.

So, Morrowind = not enough information. Oblivion/Skyrim = too much information

Morrowind did not have the strength of detail and having every area and region being so unique, consequently it was more difficult to orientate yourself in Morrowind (but by no means hard or difficult, the only real problems occured because of mistyped directions, not when they functioned as intended).

Tell me this, if you were directed to find Ustengrav from being told that it is located in the swamps northwest of Morthal, would you have problems finding it??

Turning on and off the arrow isn't the issue I am having, the issue is that they could have built everything around the great work that the designers of the terrain put into it. They had the chance to use the strength that the amazing design of Skyrim provides, and they didn't, it's a missed opportunity.

It's like writing an extremely subtle and intelligent plot and then have it ruined by bluntly revealing everything before you had a chance to figure it out yourself.

Who's we?

I like them.

I agree. I wouldn't even want to play the game with the Compass Markers on.

Exploring is much more exciting when there isn't markers ruining the experience. Also battle is more exciting without enemy dots.
I've also disabled visible quest arrows (I've them only enabled in map screen). This way I can keep all the quests I'm going to do always checked in the Journal. Very handy.

If you don't like the compass, download a mod to turn it off and stop whingeing about it.

I think they are quite useful, and you can turn off the quest marker and you can not look at the compass anyway, it's not that big

Markers completely undermine the whole idea of an immersive open-world, ruin the sense of exploration and discovery, and treat the player like a moron.

I just look at the map, as required by the lack of direction, see where the marker is, de-activate the quest, and head in that direction, walking if there is no carriage ride that makes sense.
It shouldn't have to be that way, but I am just making the best of a bad job, and though it is an area where the game cold be improved, it is second nature now, and doesn't bother me as much when playing as it does when I think about it posting on the forum.

This reaction to everything that it can be turned off, or optional or modded isn't a solution.

The game is designed around using these features. They didn't design quests around interpreting vague maps and directions, they designed them around following a map marker.

As in Fallout NV there was the hardcoe mode, which was interesting and optional, but the game was not designed from hardcoe mode. It was basically very simple and no real challenge to find water, food and shelter and as such it was just an added bit of flair. If the game had been designed around hardcoe mode, with the option of turning it off, then it would have made the features of hardcoe mode much more central to your game experience and success.

Same thing in Skyrim, if they had designed the quests around using directions and exploring to solve them, they would be completely different than from what they are now as they are designed around a quest marker. I believe they should have based their design on people not using the compass and map markers and then have the option for those who find it difficult to have that assistance. Basically the same thing, optional, but the other way around.

Except that the hardcoe mode from FNV was developed from the suggestions and hard work of a handfull of Fallout 3 fans who worked out and in-game developed ways to implement it in F3....and most of that effort was put in long after those players had finished the game at least once, and had put many many hours into it. The discussions on the boards always saw a 'hardcoe' mode as an added extra, rather than a central concept to the game...the players recognised and understood that it would never appeal to the vast majority of players.

I agree with your point papercut that it should be an option for some players, but in view of the number of people who have been or are playing skyrim, I think that the percentage that want a more 'realistic' (for want of a better term) approach would be minimal.

The lack of infomation in the journal makes it almost impossible to play this game without the magical GPS

One way to be a proper explorer is to explore on your own. Don't wait for someone to hand you a quest and directions before you do it.

People the problem is not that they can or cannot be turned off. The problem is that there is no alternative to them that makes sense. Some people prefer to think when doing the quests. Giving us clues so we can figure it out is MUCH more rewarding. However the verbal and quest directions are horrendous. Following a quest marker feels like you have not done a damned thing worthwhile other than get through the dungeon by doing as you are told and following the dangling carrot. Many people do not like questmarkers. Sure they are useful but only if you are looking to just DO the quest.

I think this is the real issue. I don't find the quest arrow as abhorrent as some do. In Morrowind, locations were often marked on your map as gold squares, and to get there you would simply keep popping open your world map. The arrow on the compass just streamlines the process of constantly checking your map. Morrowind also came with a map that showed almost every single location in the game, right down to the rocks, so I'm not sure if struggling to find locations was ever a design goal.

However, there are far too many quests in Skyrim that are unplayable without the arrow. This is what breaks the immersion. Take the last section of the Book of Love quest, for instance. Because of the quest arrow, all it is is a matter of blindly walking to the marker, then blindly walking to another marker. The player never gets the feeling that they're solving a quest or participating in the world.

At least with mods you can make the map readable (free panning and zoom, remove clouds, add roads etc.). After that you can make your own directions.

Nice to see someone gets it. Well said. It`s totally not necessary and actually destroys the whole point of exploration in an open world. A simple ingame map that we have is all we need.

But I would add that Fast Travel also ruins this too. The cart or horse would be easily enough and allow the Player to see some of the country.

I like the feature and if I don't want them I turn off the hud or uncheck the box.

Sig-worthy.

I traded Skyrim in for another game because of features like that.

I am a fan of exploring and finding locations on my own. I'm not saying the directions should be as vague as Morrowind's, but the arrows should be completely optional as in if I want to find location on my own Morrowind style, at least provide good indications via npc dialogue and a journal where all the quests have full details on who, where, when, what (including secondary quests ffs!!)

Both arrows, discovered, and non-discovered location markers should be optional, with separate setting for compass, and world map.

I started playing a completely different game when I disabled all markers in both places. I don't want the system to tell me "you have an undiscovered cave near, to the East", if I can't even see it. Whenever I have a quest inside it, I will just climb up, walk around, watch the landscapes, until I'm able to locate it.

Now I'm sure to walk past lots of mines, caves, fortress, etc. without even noticing it. Sometimes I adventure inside the woods instead of traveling using the road, and I discover places. Some times I visit them, some times they are left behind and forgotten, because my map does show discovered places either.