QFT, lockpicking, pickpocket, both irrelevant.

I have not found a lock yet on a door or chest that has stopped me from completing a quest because I could not open them. I have found locks on doors that blocked an alternate path in a dungeon. The few locks I did have to open were low level and no problem.

Your a "master" and you post something like this? Wow....

Only from the perspective of a powergamer. I need those perks to open some locks - I keep running out of picks on Expert and Above locks.

I have to admit it felt a little wierd that my level 30 warrior had a Lockpicking Skill of 50+.

I'm sure mods for Lock Bash with weapon and Open Lock with spell will soon appear, but it puzzles me as to why they were not already in the game.

To be really honest, aren't locks kinda pointless in this game? If Bethesda wants to really simplify things (like they obviously have) just remove all locks. Make it so that either a chest or door can be opened or it can't, period. What's the point of making the lockpicking game anyway? If I ever fail and run out of picks I just reload. I not ever REALLY going to leave something unopened, so the whole Skill is pointless. And don't even let me get started on how useless the Lockpick perks are. Locks are easy to open anyway and money is easy to find, so all the perks are POINTLESS, as is the whole skill.

NOTE, I do want the locks on, just for immersion and RPing, but seriously at the same time Bethesda made the whole skill worthless. There should have been more options to open locks.

They used the lockpick minigame from Fallout 3 and left out the most important aspect of it.
If your lock pick skill wasn't up to snuff, it was impossible to pick a higher lever lock.
If your lock pick skill was 15 you couldn't pick an easy lock or above unitl your skill went up.
If they kept this for Skyrim, as in you need apprentice lock picking perk to pick apprecntice locks, lock picking wouldn't be a useless perk tree.

I wouldn't mind if there were more keys in the game, especially in dungeons. However, Lockpicking's great around town. All they needed to do to make Lockpicking useful was make the mini-game real-time.



It would just lock warriors and mages out of the game (literally). What makes the tree useless is that there's no incentive to make you want to pick locks faster - adding time-pressure would have made the lockpicking minigame much more useful.

Oh, I was just opining on how to make the tree more useful for thieves. Real time lock picking would be neat.
I fully support bringing back open spells and implementing a bash lock feature.

Wow this reminds me of good old Morrowind. Yes I left many locks unopened in that game and I actually WANTED to increase my skill and get better lockpicks as without it there were locks I just could not open. Master Rogues were actually rewarded for their lockpicking skills and the choices they made. Now anyone with a lockpick is a Master Rogue.

Just go to the shops in each town you visit and you'll find enough picks to never run out. I could see how it's a bit of a pain for players that don't like to go out of their way for lockpicking, but it should be a bit of a challenge to do these things.

Uhhh, no? It's "powergaming" now because the game does not put limitations on the character? You're delusional.

Except Morrowind showered you with enough Latch-Crackers and Ondassi's Unhinging to open all chests you come across in a non-thieving playthrough. However, Thieve's did have incentive to improve their skill, because there weren't enough to open the more tempting prizes...



I cannot open a Master Lock without a stroke of luck or more than 30 Lockpicks.

Heh, I know what you mean. I even noted them in a notepad so that I could remember where they were to unlock the buggers at a later date.


Edit, way to fail at quoting Varek.

That's not powergaming.
However! It is a flaw in the game design. The game bases the lock pick skill of your real life skill at the minigame and not so much your PCs skill. The same was true in Oblivion. I found that system incredibly easy for me.

There are no classes anymore - everyone can use everything to some extend. Why would you bash a chest when you can lockpick it anyway?



Sometimes I need 30 picks, more often than not about 10, sometimes I even get it in the 2nd try... it is a joke, especially once your lockpicking skill has leveled a bit, but it's easy even on base level...

I still think I have the best solution to this. It would make for a great mod.

Step 1: Increase the incidence of traps on chests.

Step 2: Allow the player to lock doors and chests using the lockpicking skill.

Step 3: Add a bash lock ability that makes a great deal of noise and destroys the lock so that it cannot be locked again. Also add Melt Lock, a spell that destroys the targeted lock.

Step 4: Add an AI package that allows NPCs to bash/melt/pick locks depending on their type.

Step 5: Cause damaged locks on dwellings to be repaired and relocked at a higher level upon the next respawn of the associated interior cell. Possibly also tie a generic guard spawn to the area for a while.

The alternative to that was Morrowinds way. You just click, click, click until the lock opened or you ran out of picks. Or, you just got a message saying you could not open it.

I'll be honest, I liked this better as it did incorporate only my character's skill and not my personal real-life skills. Bethesda's spin on this now seems to be to make the lock-picking game so easy that a 2 year old could do it. Thus is born my 40th level all powerful mage ... and great lock picker.

Technically there aren't classes anymore, but in reality we just make our own unnamed classes. I guess a better way to frame the question is to ask where his awesome open spell for his mage archetype character went to.

Why we would want to bash a lock open is simple to answer: why not? The game is about choices and defining our hero any way we like, and letting use use physical power/magic/stealth to open a lock gives us more choices to define ourselves as adventurers. You wouldn't have to use it, but you could if you so wanted to!

I can't see ANY way to balance lockpicking... All my characters in past games (Especially Daggerfall and Morrowind) were great Lockpickers because I couldn't bother with the spell, and it was just easier to level lockpicking to avoid losing access to loot.

The problem is with Gamer mindset, not the lockpicking skill itself. If you have to pick more locks (as a Thief would), you'd want to make lockpicking as quick and painless as possible for your character. However, a non-thief has the time and lockpicks to waste on the rare Master-locked chest you stumble across in normal playthrough. Instead of a player saying "Oh... I'm not going to be able to open that lock in any reasonable amount of investment of Lockpicks or Time," and move on, it switches to "MUST GET LOOT! SAVESCUM UNTIL IT OPENS! BUY MOAR LOCKPICKS!" Or, in the case of a truly inaccessible lock, it becomes "[CENSORED] GAME! LET ME GET MY LOOT!"

They needed to categorize locks and doors or containers by strength and resistance to tampering by other 'forces'. If I hurl a fireball at a wooden container, I expect it to disintegrate revealing its contents. If I bash an old wooden door with a war-hammer I expect it to burst open.

On the other side, a solid metal door with an armored lock should only be accessible to a skilled thief with proper tools.

I really miss the lack of differentiation that would add a layer of complexity to this game.

I would want something like what you described above, but I do appreciate that they pretty much made any lock openable by putting the pick in the exact right spot and turning. I can open the very hardest locks with only 12-16 picks and a light touch, that wasn't possible in the last game.

I would like ways to break doors, smash open boxes, and open things very loudly. I would even allow for BREAKING strong boxes to destroy the items inside. That would be the trade off an extremely strong barbarian charter can open most doors and smash most strong boxes, but taking such a forceful approach should damage some items like potions, poisons, jewelry, and some gems. That would both reinforce the positive aspects of being a thief who has skills, but also allows a warrior to have a "who cares" what I break attitude. It also would allow for the strong lock, but weak door hinge concepts where a thief cannot get past the lock, but any brutish warrior could just bust down the door.

There is another way to unlock doors and chests without ever using a lockpick. (Please mind the spoiler!)

As you see, everyone starts knowing how to pick a lock, how to cast magic, how to smith and how to brew potions, and everything else. It would not be bad to have alternatives for things like lockpicking, but they are not needed in any way...

With the current system, I haven't been wasting time on lockpicking perks. I don't need it, I can do it on my own. The problem now is that i'm wasting my time leveling up on a skill that does absolutely no good to me. My lockpicking is 100 and no points invested in the perk tree? So, i'm forced to advance towards the next level every time I pick open a door? With that mindset, wouldn't a lot of gamers just choose to miss out on potential treasures? Not just the kind you can sell later on, either, there's always potential for more story or adventure behind that locked door!

But the truth is, I can unlock them. By nature, i'm a thief in an ES game. Naturally anytime I play a different type of character, i'm going for that locked item. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to, but at the same time I think it'd be more fitting to different characters to have a different means to go about it. Just because the game is broken, doesn't mean I should just pretend an aspect of it doesn't exist.


Edit: I swear I wasn't just replying to myself....

Lockpicking

Novice locks REQUIRE skill level 1 to attempt to open
Novice locks become TRIVIAL at skill level 20 - Trivial locks will gain the feature of OPEN granting you the ability to bypass the lockpicking mini-game

Apprentice locks REQUIRE skill level 20 to attempt to open
Apprentice locks become TRIVIAL at skill level 40 - Trivial locks will gain the feature of OPEN granting you the ability to bypass the lockpicking mini-game

Adept locks REQUIRE skill level 40 to attempt to open
Adept locks become TRIVIAL at skill level 60 - Trivial locks will gain the feature of OPEN granting you the ability to bypass the lockpicking mini-game

Expert locks REQUIRE skill level 60 to attempt to open
Expert locks become TRIVIAL at skill level 80 - Trivial locks will gain the feature of OPEN granting you the ability to bypass the lockpicking mini-game

Master locks REQUIRE skill level 80 to attempt to open
Master locks become TRIVIAL at skill level 100 - Trivial locks will gain the feature of OPEN granting you the ability to bypass the lockpicking mini-game

*Item quality and quantity GREATLY increased per tier of locked chest. The highest level of locked objects improve your Lockpicking skill by the largest amount. Locks that are trivial, provide for lesser skill increases - but will still contribute to skill-ups.

Bash Lock

Players are now able to Bash Locks. Bashing Locks is not as intricate as lockpicking. You have a chance of destroying the chest and items inside. The chance to bash the lock successfully is a skill check off of the weapon you are wielding at the time of the attempt. You can attempt to Bash any lock regardless of skill level. Until weapon skill 20, successfully Bashing a Master Lock is impossible. Locked items that are essential cannot be bashed.

Novice - If your skills is equal or greater than 20 in your weapon skill, you have a 100% chance to successfully Bash the Lock.
Novice - If your skill is less than 20 in your weapon skill, you have a 20% chance of failure.

Apprentice - If your skills is equal or greater than 40 in your weapon skill, you have a 100% chance to successfully Bash the Lock.
Apprentice - If your skill is less than 20 in your weapon skill, you have a 40% chance of failure.
Apprentice - If your skill is 20-39 in your weapon skill, you have a 20% chance of failure.

Adept - If your skills is equal or greater than 60 in your weapon skill, you have a 100% chance to successfully Bash the Lock.
Adept - If your skill is less than 20 in your weapon skill, you have a 60% chance of failure.
Adept - If your skill is 20-39 in your weapon skill, you have a 40% chance of failure.
Acept - If your skill is 40-59 in your weapon skill, you have a 20% chance of failure.

Expert - If your skills is equal or greater than 80 in your weapon skill, you have a 100% chance to successfully Bash the Lock.
Expert - If your skill is less than 20 in your weapon skill, you have an 80% chance of failure.
Expert - If your skill is 20-39 in your weapon skill, you have a 60% chance of failure.
Expert - If your skill is 40-59 in your weapon skill, you have a 40% chance of failure.
Expert - If your skill is 60-79 in your weapon skill, you have a 20% chance of failure.

Master - If your skills is equal or greater than 100 in your weapon skill, you have a 100% to successfully Bash the Lock.
Master - If your skill is less than 20 in your weapon skill, you have a 100% chance of failure.
Master - If your skill is 20-39 in your weapon skill, you have an 80% chance of failure.
Master - If your skill is 40-59 in your weapon skill, you have a 60% chance of failure.
Master - If your skill is 60-79 in your weapon skill, you have a 40% chance of failure.
Master - If your skill is 80-99 in your weapon skill, you have a 20% chance of failure.

Melt Lock (Magicka)

This works the same as Bash Lock, but is a skill check against Alteration. This spell can be bought or found at adventure level 1.